ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
A Bigger Bang Tour 2006

Radio City Music Hall, New York City, March 14, 2006
© Throbby... thanks!
[ ROCKSOFF.ORG ] [ IORR NEWS ] [ SETLISTS 1962-2006 ] [ FORO EN ESPAÑOL ] [ BIT TORRENT TRACKER ] [ BIT TORRENT HELP ] [ BIRTHDAY'S LIST ] [ MICK JAGGER ] [ KEITHFUCIUS ] [ CHARLIE WATTS ] [ RONNIE WOOD ] [ BRIAN JONES ] [ MICK TAYLOR ] [ BILL WYMAN ] [ IAN "STU" STEWART ] [ NICKY HOPKINS ] [ MERRY CLAYTON ] [ IAN 'MAC' McLAGAN ] [ LINKS ] [ PHOTOS ] [ JIMI HENDRIX ] [ TEMPLE ] [ GUESTBOOK ] [ ADMIN ]
CHAT ROOM aka The Fun HOUSE Rest rooms last days
ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
Register | Update Profile | F.A.Q. | Admin Control Panel

Topic: Setlist Warhorse Problem Fix? Maybe.... Return to archive Page: 1 2
13th March 2006 02:32 PM
RollingstonesUSA Anybody think playin all the warhorses the 2nd half of the show would be better, to free up space in the first half for more gems, but open with a warhorse, example:

1.Jumpin' Jack Flash
2.Shattered
3.Oh No, Not You Again
4.Love Is Strong
5.Sway
6.Worried About You
7.Beast Of Burden
8.Rocks Off
9.Bitch
10.Night Time Is The Right Time(Introductions)
11.This Place Is Empty(Keith)
12.Little T & A(Keith)
13.Miss You(To B-Stage)
14.Rough Justice(B-Stage)
15.She's So Cold(B-Stage)
16.Honky Tonk Women(Back To Main Stage)
17.Sympathy For The Devil
18.Tumbling Dice
19.Start Me Up
20.Brown Sugar

"ENCORE"
21.You Can't Always Get What You Want
22.Satisfaction
13th March 2006 02:36 PM
gimmekeef Lately I think they have done a good job at the top of the setlist with mixing.My problem is the last 7 or so always in same order.If they moved ONNYA down near the end and used PIB and perhaps something like Route 66 then the 5 or so warhorses wouldnt seem so old..or always in exact same order....
13th March 2006 02:43 PM
Break The Spell They have been doing good lately, but i think a nice touch would be adding a non-warhorse to the first song of the encore.
13th March 2006 02:44 PM
RollingstonesUSA
quote:
Break The Spell wrote:
They have been doing good lately, but i think a nice touch would be adding a non-warhorse to the first song of the encore.



I agree 100%....
13th March 2006 02:49 PM
nanatod How about dumping some of the warhorses, especially "Satisfaction" and "Sympathy for the Devil" altogether, and just saying "tough" to the casual fans who want to hear the warhorses?

The Allman Brothers don't play "Whipping Post" at every show. The Dead didn't play "Truckin'" at every show. Neil Young doesn't play "Old Man" at every show.
13th March 2006 02:56 PM
Paranoid_Android Correct me if I am mistaken...but wouldn't Shattered...Beast Of Burden...Rocks Off...and Bitch be considered Warhorses??? Maybe not Bitch...don't know how often it has been played over the years...I would love to see more Warhorses be developed...Retire Satisfaction, JJF, or BS...for example...and replace with another yet-to-be warhorse...Heartbreaker...Undercover...Hang Fire...and pull out Satisfaction to make it a REAL treat/surprise...not so obligotory
13th March 2006 02:57 PM
Break The Spell
quote:
nanatod wrote:
How about dumping some of the warhorses, especially "Satisfaction" and "Sympathy for the Devil" altogether, and just saying "tough" to the casual fans who want to hear the warhorses?

The Allman Brothers don't play "Whipping Post" at every show. The Dead didn't play "Truckin'" at every show. Neil Young doesn't play "Old Man" at every show.



Exactly, and the crowds still came despite those mentioned bands not playing the obvious hits at every show. Heck, The Stones went through periods where Satisfaction and Sympathy were not performed and the crowds still turned up.
13th March 2006 02:57 PM
Paranoid_Android
quote:
nanatod wrote:
How about dumping some of the warhorses, especially "Satisfaction" and "Sympathy for the Devil" altogether, and just saying "tough" to the casual fans who want to hear the warhorses?

The Allman Brothers don't play "Whipping Post" at every show. The Dead didn't play "Truckin'" at every show. Neil Young doesn't play "Old Man" at every show.



BULLY!!! I second the motion!!!
Just add Start Me Up to that list...PLEEEEEZZZEEE!!!!!
[Edited by Paranoid_Android]
13th March 2006 03:07 PM
nanatod
quote:
Paranoid_Android wrote:
Correct me if I am mistaken...but wouldn't Shattered...Beast Of Burden...Rocks Off...and Bitch be considered Warhorses??? Maybe not Bitch...don't know how often it has been played over the years...I would love to see more Warhorses be developed...Retire Satisfaction, JJF, or BS...for example...and replace with another yet-to-be warhorse...Heartbreaker...Undercover...Hang Fire...and pull out Satisfaction to make it a REAL treat/surprise...not so obligotory



Mr. Android, I absolutely agree that the other songs have become warhorses, but I wanted to seem moderate in my posting, and not seem to go overboard.

I am not a big fan of "Undercover," but I get your point.

With respect to "Heartbreaker," however, it is my own personal opinion, and probably no one else's on this board, that "Heartbreaker" is the worst Stones song ever, and no Stones song is even close to how much I despise it. It is like nails on a chalkboard to me. Jagger's line about the po-lice shooting the kid is in my opinion, his worst lyric by a mile.
13th March 2006 03:24 PM
Paranoid_Android Nanatod said to Paranoid Android:

Mr. Android, I absolutely agree that the other songs have become warhorses, but I wanted to seem moderate in my posting, and not seem to go overboard.

I am not a big fan of "Undercover," but I get your point.

Paranoid Android responds with:

Cool...I have never seen Heartbreaker...myself...so I would LOVE to see it...Alot of folks love it, as do I, but I totally understand your vibe...the song however...is based on a true story at the time when the Stones were recording in NYC...FYI...not just banter from Mick & Keith...in that context...I find it more bearable...and I was in NYC at the time too, so maybe it has a bit of nostalgia for me as well...I dont know...Be Well!!
13th March 2006 03:51 PM
exile
quote:
nanatod wrote:
How about dumping some of the warhorses, especially "Satisfaction"



thats going to happen (not) thats why half the people (non hardcore) fans go to see them play, buy a ticket and a Tshirt.

13th March 2006 04:00 PM
nanatod
quote:
exile wrote:



thats going to happen (not) thats why half the people (non hardcore) fans go to see them play, buy a ticket and a Tshirt.





That's why I am in no hurry to see the Stones live again, unless the price [was] right.
13th March 2006 04:19 PM
Break The Spell If only they could bump up the set list to 24-26 songs like on the SW and VL tours. There would be enough room for an extra 4-6 non-warhorse songs per night and all the casual fans would leave happy as well.
13th March 2006 04:25 PM
nanatod "If only they could bump up the set list to 24-26 songs"

They aren't the Dead.


[Edited by nanatod]
[Edited by nanatod]
13th March 2006 05:20 PM
Throwaway It would be a nice surprise to throw in a gem around song 17, or as you said, as the first encore, because after you hear Honkey Tonk Women, its not that exciting when the intro to Sympathy plays...but imagine HTW then Keith ripping into Star Star or The Last Time(well RW would play the opening riff)!!!
13th March 2006 05:26 PM
Daethgod i still reckon Start Me Up is the best opener
frigging rocks and EVERYONE in the crowd gets jiggy with it

love to hear a few more gems, maybe even an 'acoustic/ballad' double, with the guys sitting and 'really' playing.
rotate :
Angie
Wild Horses
Memory Motel
Worried About You
Coming Down Again
Almost Hear You Sigh
If You Really Want To Be My Friend
Streets Of Love
Tops
Fool To Cry
Dead Flowers
Biggest Mistake
As Tears Go By

then of course we need 18-19 Rockers !

13th March 2006 05:51 PM
Saint Sway
quote:
nanatod wrote:
How about dumping some of the warhorses, especially "Satisfaction" and "Sympathy for the Devil" altogether, and just saying "tough" to the casual fans who want to hear the warhorses?

The Allman Brothers don't play "Whipping Post" at every show. The Dead didn't play "Truckin'" at every show. Neil Young doesn't play "Old Man" at every show.



excellent point!

theres plenty of bands out there with huge fan followings that dont cater to playing their mega hits every night.

Stones have a deeper catalog of quality music than any other band IMO. They could do a 20 song set and drop SMU, MU, HTW and Satisfaction from the set and STILL deliver a hit packed show that would send even the most casual fan home satisfied. While keeping us die hards that pay the big bucks to go to multiple shows more interested.

it seems like the front 9 songs vary somewhat. No reason they cant do a similiar shuffle with the back 9.
13th March 2006 05:52 PM
Gazza I made a post on IORR a few days ago where I was arguing that they could rotate a few warhorses from night to night yet still play enough of them each night to keep everyone happy

The Stones have more recognisably great songs than almost anyone. To tie themselves down to making half of every show consist of the same songs year in year out is a shocking waste.

see what you think




Here's an example of the 'rotation' system that I've been talking about. I just threw this together off the top of my head in my tea break at work today in about 10 minutes, so its not something that requires much thought

Basically, for a bit of fun this is a list of a standard 21-song Rolling Stones setlist for this tour - with alternates thrown in to keep it fresh. An A-list and a B-list if you like. The show is structured in a way to have a requisite number of warhorses including a well known song to open the show, a classic ballad, a 'rarities' spot, a part in the show reserved for new songs, a classic cover version, Keith's 2 songs, a 3-stage bstage set, a final run through of crowd pleasers and a 2-song encore. Basically similar to what we already have. I've tried to pair each song off with another song (or songs) which either have a similar theme or recognisability or which would have a similar impact on the crowd when performed as the song they alternate with

I've tried to make it reasonable. Very few of the songs mentioned have not so far been played on this current tour, and those that havent are songs that have either been recently recorded (ie for the new album) or have been frequently played on recent tours so shouldnt be hard to work up again. So, I'm not asking for them to suddenly dig out obscure stuff theyve probably never even rehearsed for 20 years or anything. I've even left out quite a few songs that HAVE been played this tour and which could also be brought back in when the occasion demands

here we go :

1) Jumpin' Jack Flash / Start Me Up
2) Shattered / She's So Cold
3) Tumbling Dice / Lets Spend The Night Together
4) Back Of My Hand / any other ABB song (eg She Saw Me Coming)
5) Dead Flowers / All Down The Line
6) Worried About You / Sway / Memory Motel
7) Wild Horses / Ruby Tuesday / As Tears Go By
8) Rain Fall Down / any other ABB song
9) Night Time / Mr Pitiful / Get Up Stand Up/ Aint Too proud To Beg

10) This Place Is Empty/ Slipping Away/ The Worst
11) Happy/ Infamy/ Before They Make Me Run

12) Miss You

13) Rough Justice / Oh No Not You Again
14) either a slow blues song (Rooster, Wanna Make Love to You, Mannish Boy) or a Chuck Berry-style rocker (Little Queenie, Route 66, Carol, etc)
15) Honky Tonk Women / Street Fighting Man


16) Sympathy For The Devil / Gimme Shelter
17) Out of Control/ Beast of Burden
18) Respectable / Get Off Of My Cloud
19) Brown Sugar / Paint It Black

20) You Cant Always Get What You Want / Midnight Rambler
21) Satisfaction / Its Only rock 'n' Roll

The show is structured as it is now. Songs 10-11 are keith's set, 12 is the song which takes them to the b-stage, 13-15 is the b-stage, 20-21 are the final encores - and so on.

Ok, so the way you have it is a 'warhorse' as an opener, plus #3, #7, #12, #15, #16, #19, 20 & 21

Thats 9 songs a night evenly distributed throughout the show that EVERYONE will know. You can drop any one of those songs and replace with another which is as well known and (in practically all cases) which is also to be found on "40 Licks", which appears to be the 'benchmark' of recognisable 'classics' for even the most casual fan.

Obviously, you wouldnt change many of them per night (maybe 3 or 4) and some you would expect to hear maybe 80% of the time at least (You should certainly be expected to hear at least 3 out of their 4 best known songs - Satisfaction, JJ Flash, Brown Sugar and HT Women - at any one show)..and just because one of the classics gets played doesnt mean its alternate cant be slotted it in place of another 'rotating warhorse' from time to time (eg, you could open with JJF but still occasionally play Start Me Up later in the show, say as track 15 on the b-stage). You could even move Paint It Black to be an occasional opener (what a beginning to a show THAT would be). The important thing is that there are a certain number of 'slots' in the show where you have a warhorse. A show obviously needs a certain number to retain some momentum.

Of the others, song #6 is the 'rarely played' slot, #9 is the classic cover, #10-11 are Keith's set (one slow one, one rocker - the way he seems to like to pace it, with one of the songs being one of the new songs). There are 4 slots for ABB songs, including Keith's one. Again, like the warhorses, these could be moved around. They could play Rough Justice on the b-stage and still play ONNYA at song #4, similar to what they do at the minute.

The only song I havent listed an alternative for is 'Miss You'. Whilst its the one warhorse I think sounds the most tired of all, its performed at a pivotal point of the show from a technical standpoint as its when the band are moved out to the b-stage. I cant really think of a suitable alternative which is as recognisable, similar in length and style and which Mick would play guitar on while the stage moves.

So, with minimal tweaks to the existing setlist, the fan can go to a Stones show, know hes getting a requisite number of warhorses, but the element of surprise is still there because even if youve been following the tour from city to city or online, you CANT reasonably predict what the Stones are going to play on any given evening. Theres no real extra effort required on the band's part as for the most part these songs have already been played or are at least pretty fresh to them and/or recently rehearsed or recorded. I'm being uncharacteristically generous by not being too insistent on adding new songs that have been long lost to the setlist. They could add them in as the tour progresses in the appropriate 'slots' as they please.

And to reiterate, I'm not suggesting that they should be changing 10-15 songs per night or anything like that (even though its doable). Maybe even 5-8 per show - even over the one nighters and not (as is the case at the minute) keeping the rarely played stuff for places where theyve visited earlier in thr tour. The key is that its not the SAME 5-8 'slots' in the show per night. Change them around - 2-3 of the warhorses per night, maybe 1 of Keith's, 1 of the covers, 1 of the new songs, 1 'rarity' , 1 or 2 of the album tracks.

The magic is that you go to a show and always will come away surprised, yet satisfied. And the band can keep a show fresh and wont ever be in danger of auto pilot, without having to overreach themselves.

Pick your own setlist at random out of those selections in that order (and taking into account the warhorses can move around in the set) and I doubt anyone would complain
13th March 2006 05:52 PM
pdog Never gonna happen guys.
13th March 2006 05:59 PM
RollingstonesUSA
quote:
Gazza wrote:
I made a post on IORR a few days ago where I was arguing that they could rotate a few warhorses from night to night yet still play enough of them each night to keep everyone happy

The Stones have more recognisably great songs than almost anyone. To tie themselves down to making half of every show consist of the same songs year in year out is a shocking waste.

see what you think




Here's an example of the 'rotation' system that I've been talking about. I just threw this together off the top of my head in my tea break at work today in about 10 minutes, so its not something that requires much thought

Basically, for a bit of fun this is a list of a standard 21-song Rolling Stones setlist for this tour - with alternates thrown in to keep it fresh. An A-list and a B-list if you like. The show is structured in a way to have a requisite number of warhorses including a well known song to open the show, a classic ballad, a 'rarities' spot, a part in the show reserved for new songs, a classic cover version, Keith's 2 songs, a 3-stage bstage set, a final run through of crowd pleasers and a 2-song encore. Basically similar to what we already have. I've tried to pair each song off with another song (or songs) which either have a similar theme or recognisability or which would have a similar impact on the crowd when performed as the song they alternate with

I've tried to make it reasonable. Very few of the songs mentioned have not so far been played on this current tour, and those that havent are songs that have either been recently recorded (ie for the new album) or have been frequently played on recent tours so shouldnt be hard to work up again. So, I'm not asking for them to suddenly dig out obscure stuff theyve probably never even rehearsed for 20 years or anything. I've even left out quite a few songs that HAVE been played this tour and which could also be brought back in when the occasion demands

here we go :

1) Jumpin' Jack Flash / Start Me Up
2) Shattered / She's So Cold
3) Tumbling Dice / Lets Spend The Night Together
4) Back Of My Hand / any other ABB song (eg She Saw Me Coming)
5) Dead Flowers / All Down The Line
6) Worried About You / Sway / Memory Motel
7) Wild Horses / Ruby Tuesday / As Tears Go By
8) Rain Fall Down / any other ABB song
9) Night Time / Mr Pitiful / Get Up Stand Up/ Aint Too proud To Beg

10) This Place Is Empty/ Slipping Away/ The Worst
11) Happy/ Infamy/ Before They Make Me Run

12) Miss You

13) Rough Justice / Oh No Not You Again
14) either a slow blues song (Rooster, Wanna Make Love to You, Mannish Boy) or a Chuck Berry-style rocker (Little Queenie, Route 66, Carol, etc)
15) Honky Tonk Women / Street Fighting Man


16) Sympathy For The Devil / Gimme Shelter
17) Out of Control/ Beast of Burden
18) Respectable / Get Off Of My Cloud
19) Brown Sugar / Paint It Black

20) You Cant Always Get What You Want / Midnight Rambler
21) Satisfaction / Its Only rock 'n' Roll

The show is structured as it is now. Songs 10-11 are keith's set, 12 is the song which takes them to the b-stage, 13-15 is the b-stage, 20-21 are the final encores - and so on.

Ok, so the way you have it is a 'warhorse' as an opener, plus #3, #7, #12, #15, #16, #19, 20 & 21

Thats 9 songs a night evenly distributed throughout the show that EVERYONE will know. You can drop any one of those songs and replace with another which is as well known and (in practically all cases) which is also to be found on "40 Licks", which appears to be the 'benchmark' of recognisable 'classics' for even the most casual fan.

Obviously, you wouldnt change many of them per night (maybe 3 or 4) and some you would expect to hear maybe 80% of the time at least (You should certainly be expected to hear at least 3 out of their 4 best known songs - Satisfaction, JJ Flash, Brown Sugar and HT Women - at any one show)..and just because one of the classics gets played doesnt mean its alternate cant be slotted it in place of another 'rotating warhorse' from time to time (eg, you could open with JJF but still occasionally play Start Me Up later in the show, say as track 15 on the b-stage). You could even move Paint It Black to be an occasional opener (what a beginning to a show THAT would be). The important thing is that there are a certain number of 'slots' in the show where you have a warhorse. A show obviously needs a certain number to retain some momentum.

Of the others, song #6 is the 'rarely played' slot, #9 is the classic cover, #10-11 are Keith's set (one slow one, one rocker - the way he seems to like to pace it, with one of the songs being one of the new songs). There are 4 slots for ABB songs, including Keith's one. Again, like the warhorses, these could be moved around. They could play Rough Justice on the b-stage and still play ONNYA at song #4, similar to what they do at the minute.

The only song I havent listed an alternative for is 'Miss You'. Whilst its the one warhorse I think sounds the most tired of all, its performed at a pivotal point of the show from a technical standpoint as its when the band are moved out to the b-stage. I cant really think of a suitable alternative which is as recognisable, similar in length and style and which Mick would play guitar on while the stage moves.

So, with minimal tweaks to the existing setlist, the fan can go to a Stones show, know hes getting a requisite number of warhorses, but the element of surprise is still there because even if youve been following the tour from city to city or online, you CANT reasonably predict what the Stones are going to play on any given evening. Theres no real extra effort required on the band's part as for the most part these songs have already been played or are at least pretty fresh to them and/or recently rehearsed or recorded. I'm being uncharacteristically generous by not being too insistent on adding new songs that have been long lost to the setlist. They could add them in as the tour progresses in the appropriate 'slots' as they please.

And to reiterate, I'm not suggesting that they should be changing 10-15 songs per night or anything like that (even though its doable). Maybe even 5-8 per show - even over the one nighters and not (as is the case at the minute) keeping the rarely played stuff for places where theyve visited earlier in thr tour. The key is that its not the SAME 5-8 'slots' in the show per night. Change them around - 2-3 of the warhorses per night, maybe 1 of Keith's, 1 of the covers, 1 of the new songs, 1 'rarity' , 1 or 2 of the album tracks.

The magic is that you go to a show and always will come away surprised, yet satisfied. And the band can keep a show fresh and wont ever be in danger of auto pilot, without having to overreach themselves.

Pick your own setlist at random out of those selections in that order (and taking into account the warhorses can move around in the set) and I doubt anyone would complain



You are a fucking GENIUS!
13th March 2006 06:02 PM
Saint Sway thats an excellent well thought out post Gazza. Mick & Cohl should hire you.

one question/disagreement...

quote:
Gazza wrote:
The only song I havent listed an alternative for is 'Miss You'. Whilst its the one warhorse I think sounds the most tired of all, its performed at a pivotal point of the show from a technical standpoint as its when the band are moved out to the b-stage. I cant really think of a suitable alternative which is as recognisable, similar in length and style and which Mick would play guitar on while the stage moves.



Why couldnt HTW be rotated in this spot? I think if it works on the way back to the stage it could work on the way out.

theres some other songs that start out with a similiar tempo as MU that could work in that spot too. Perhaps Sympathy or Beast. And I've always thought Love Is Strong or PIB would be great as the stage moved out.
13th March 2006 10:29 PM
speedfreakjive
quote:
Gazza wrote:
I made a post on IORR a few days ago where I was arguing that they could rotate a few warhorses from night to night yet still play enough of them each night to keep everyone happy

The Stones have more recognisably great songs than almost anyone. To tie themselves down to making half of every show consist of the same songs year in year out is a shocking waste.

see what you think




Here's an example of the 'rotation' system that I've been talking about. I just threw this together off the top of my head in my tea break at work today in about 10 minutes, so its not something that requires much thought

Basically, for a bit of fun this is a list of a standard 21-song Rolling Stones setlist for this tour - with alternates thrown in to keep it fresh. An A-list and a B-list if you like. The show is structured in a way to have a requisite number of warhorses including a well known song to open the show, a classic ballad, a 'rarities' spot, a part in the show reserved for new songs, a classic cover version, Keith's 2 songs, a 3-stage bstage set, a final run through of crowd pleasers and a 2-song encore. Basically similar to what we already have. I've tried to pair each song off with another song (or songs) which either have a similar theme or recognisability or which would have a similar impact on the crowd when performed as the song they alternate with

I've tried to make it reasonable. Very few of the songs mentioned have not so far been played on this current tour, and those that havent are songs that have either been recently recorded (ie for the new album) or have been frequently played on recent tours so shouldnt be hard to work up again. So, I'm not asking for them to suddenly dig out obscure stuff theyve probably never even rehearsed for 20 years or anything. I've even left out quite a few songs that HAVE been played this tour and which could also be brought back in when the occasion demands

here we go :

1) Jumpin' Jack Flash / Start Me Up
2) Shattered / She's So Cold
3) Tumbling Dice / Lets Spend The Night Together
4) Back Of My Hand / any other ABB song (eg She Saw Me Coming)
5) Dead Flowers / All Down The Line
6) Worried About You / Sway / Memory Motel
7) Wild Horses / Ruby Tuesday / As Tears Go By
8) Rain Fall Down / any other ABB song
9) Night Time / Mr Pitiful / Get Up Stand Up/ Aint Too proud To Beg

10) This Place Is Empty/ Slipping Away/ The Worst
11) Happy/ Infamy/ Before They Make Me Run

12) Miss You

13) Rough Justice / Oh No Not You Again
14) either a slow blues song (Rooster, Wanna Make Love to You, Mannish Boy) or a Chuck Berry-style rocker (Little Queenie, Route 66, Carol, etc)
15) Honky Tonk Women / Street Fighting Man


16) Sympathy For The Devil / Gimme Shelter
17) Out of Control/ Beast of Burden
18) Respectable / Get Off Of My Cloud
19) Brown Sugar / Paint It Black

20) You Cant Always Get What You Want / Midnight Rambler
21) Satisfaction / Its Only rock 'n' Roll

The show is structured as it is now. Songs 10-11 are keith's set, 12 is the song which takes them to the b-stage, 13-15 is the b-stage, 20-21 are the final encores - and so on.

Ok, so the way you have it is a 'warhorse' as an opener, plus #3, #7, #12, #15, #16, #19, 20 & 21

Thats 9 songs a night evenly distributed throughout the show that EVERYONE will know. You can drop any one of those songs and replace with another which is as well known and (in practically all cases) which is also to be found on "40 Licks", which appears to be the 'benchmark' of recognisable 'classics' for even the most casual fan.

Obviously, you wouldnt change many of them per night (maybe 3 or 4) and some you would expect to hear maybe 80% of the time at least (You should certainly be expected to hear at least 3 out of their 4 best known songs - Satisfaction, JJ Flash, Brown Sugar and HT Women - at any one show)..and just because one of the classics gets played doesnt mean its alternate cant be slotted it in place of another 'rotating warhorse' from time to time (eg, you could open with JJF but still occasionally play Start Me Up later in the show, say as track 15 on the b-stage). You could even move Paint It Black to be an occasional opener (what a beginning to a show THAT would be). The important thing is that there are a certain number of 'slots' in the show where you have a warhorse. A show obviously needs a certain number to retain some momentum.

Of the others, song #6 is the 'rarely played' slot, #9 is the classic cover, #10-11 are Keith's set (one slow one, one rocker - the way he seems to like to pace it, with one of the songs being one of the new songs). There are 4 slots for ABB songs, including Keith's one. Again, like the warhorses, these could be moved around. They could play Rough Justice on the b-stage and still play ONNYA at song #4, similar to what they do at the minute.

The only song I havent listed an alternative for is 'Miss You'. Whilst its the one warhorse I think sounds the most tired of all, its performed at a pivotal point of the show from a technical standpoint as its when the band are moved out to the b-stage. I cant really think of a suitable alternative which is as recognisable, similar in length and style and which Mick would play guitar on while the stage moves.

So, with minimal tweaks to the existing setlist, the fan can go to a Stones show, know hes getting a requisite number of warhorses, but the element of surprise is still there because even if youve been following the tour from city to city or online, you CANT reasonably predict what the Stones are going to play on any given evening. Theres no real extra effort required on the band's part as for the most part these songs have already been played or are at least pretty fresh to them and/or recently rehearsed or recorded. I'm being uncharacteristically generous by not being too insistent on adding new songs that have been long lost to the setlist. They could add them in as the tour progresses in the appropriate 'slots' as they please.

And to reiterate, I'm not suggesting that they should be changing 10-15 songs per night or anything like that (even though its doable). Maybe even 5-8 per show - even over the one nighters and not (as is the case at the minute) keeping the rarely played stuff for places where theyve visited earlier in thr tour. The key is that its not the SAME 5-8 'slots' in the show per night. Change them around - 2-3 of the warhorses per night, maybe 1 of Keith's, 1 of the covers, 1 of the new songs, 1 'rarity' , 1 or 2 of the album tracks.

The magic is that you go to a show and always will come away surprised, yet satisfied. And the band can keep a show fresh and wont ever be in danger of auto pilot, without having to overreach themselves.

Pick your own setlist at random out of those selections in that order (and taking into account the warhorses can move around in the set) and I doubt anyone would complain



With all due respect Gazza, Tumbling Dice and Brown Sugar simply HAVE to be played every show; they are too good.

Miss You could be replaced by YCAGWYW imo, this way by the time the moving stage has reached the main stage, the song has reached a grand climax, Gimme Shelter could work here too.
14th March 2006 01:08 AM
RollingstonesUSA Using the logic....
1) Jumpin' Jack Flash / Start Me Up
2) Shattered / She's So Cold
3) Tumbling Dice / Lets Spend The Night Together
4) Back Of My Hand / any other ABB song (eg She Saw Me Coming)
5) Dead Flowers / All Down The Line
6) Worried About You / Sway / Memory Motel
7) Wild Horses / Ruby Tuesday / As Tears Go By
8) Rain Fall Down / any other ABB song
9) Night Time / Mr Pitiful / Get Up Stand Up/ Aint Too proud To Beg

10) This Place Is Empty/ Slipping Away/ The Worst
11) Happy/ Infamy/ Before They Make Me Run

12) Miss You

13) Rough Justice / Oh No Not You Again
14) either a slow blues song (Rooster, Wanna Make Love to You, Mannish Boy) or a Chuck Berry-style rocker (Little Queenie, Route 66, Carol, etc)
15) Honky Tonk Women / Street Fighting Man


16) Sympathy For The Devil / Gimme Shelter
17) Out of Control/ Beast of Burden
18) Respectable / Get Off Of My Cloud
19) Brown Sugar / Paint It Black

20) You Cant Always Get What You Want / Midnight Rambler
21) Satisfaction / Its Only rock 'n' Roll

1.Start Me Up
2.Shattered
3.Let's Spend The Night Together
4.Back Of My Hand
5.Dead Flowers
6.Sway
7.Wild Horses
8.Driving Too Fast
9.Night Time Is The Right Time
10.This Place Is Empty
11.Before They Make Me Run
12.Miss You
13.Rough Justice
14.Route 66
15.Honky Tonk Women
16.Sympathy For The Devil
17.Out Of Control
18.Respectable
19.Brown Sugar
"ENCORE"
20.You Can't Always Get What You Want
21. Satisfaction

Setlist Two
1.Jumpin' Jack Flash
2.She's So Cold
3.Tumling Dice
4.She Saw Me Coming
5.All Down The Line
6.Memory Motel
7.Worried About You
8.Rain Fall Down
9.Ain't Too Proud To Beg
10.The Worst
11.Happy
12.Miss You
13.Oh No, Not You Again
14.Mannish Boy
15.Street Fighting Man
16.Gimme Shelter
17.Beast Of Burden
18.Get Off Of My Cloud
19.Paint It, Black
20.Brown Sugar
"ENCORE"
21.Midnight Rambler
22.It's Only Rock 'N' Roll

I think we will all pay to see those setlists....
14th March 2006 01:17 AM
Altamont RollingStonesUSA, again, I ask you, what is the address to your Stones themed bar The Loving Cup???
14th March 2006 01:19 AM
RollingstonesUSA
quote:
Altamont wrote:
RollingStonesUSA, again, I ask you, what is the address to your Stones themed bar The Loving Cup???



My fault.... 1849 State Street, Columbia, SC
14th March 2006 01:28 AM
pdog Gazza, you're a freak and a genius. A Freaking Genius!!!
14th March 2006 02:17 PM
keefjunkie
quote:
Gazza wrote:
I made a post on IORR a few days ago where I was arguing that they could rotate a few warhorses from night to night yet still play enough of them each night to keep everyone happy

The Stones have more recognisably great songs than almost anyone. To tie themselves down to making half of every show consist of the same songs year in year out is a shocking waste.

see what you think




Here's an example of the 'rotation' system that I've been talking about. I just threw this together off the top of my head in my tea break at work today in about 10 minutes, so its not something that requires much thought

Basically, for a bit of fun this is a list of a standard 21-song Rolling Stones setlist for this tour - with alternates thrown in to keep it fresh. An A-list and a B-list if you like. The show is structured in a way to have a requisite number of warhorses including a well known song to open the show, a classic ballad, a 'rarities' spot, a part in the show reserved for new songs, a classic cover version, Keith's 2 songs, a 3-stage bstage set, a final run through of crowd pleasers and a 2-song encore. Basically similar to what we already have. I've tried to pair each song off with another song (or songs) which either have a similar theme or recognisability or which would have a similar impact on the crowd when performed as the song they alternate with

I've tried to make it reasonable. Very few of the songs mentioned have not so far been played on this current tour, and those that havent are songs that have either been recently recorded (ie for the new album) or have been frequently played on recent tours so shouldnt be hard to work up again. So, I'm not asking for them to suddenly dig out obscure stuff theyve probably never even rehearsed for 20 years or anything. I've even left out quite a few songs that HAVE been played this tour and which could also be brought back in when the occasion demands

here we go :

1) Jumpin' Jack Flash / Start Me Up
2) Shattered / She's So Cold
3) Tumbling Dice / Lets Spend The Night Together
4) Back Of My Hand / any other ABB song (eg She Saw Me Coming)
5) Dead Flowers / All Down The Line
6) Worried About You / Sway / Memory Motel
7) Wild Horses / Ruby Tuesday / As Tears Go By
8) Rain Fall Down / any other ABB song
9) Night Time / Mr Pitiful / Get Up Stand Up/ Aint Too proud To Beg

10) This Place Is Empty/ Slipping Away/ The Worst
11) Happy/ Infamy/ Before They Make Me Run

12) Miss You

13) Rough Justice / Oh No Not You Again
14) either a slow blues song (Rooster, Wanna Make Love to You, Mannish Boy) or a Chuck Berry-style rocker (Little Queenie, Route 66, Carol, etc)
15) Honky Tonk Women / Street Fighting Man


16) Sympathy For The Devil / Gimme Shelter
17) Out of Control/ Beast of Burden
18) Respectable / Get Off Of My Cloud
19) Brown Sugar / Paint It Black

20) You Cant Always Get What You Want / Midnight Rambler
21) Satisfaction / Its Only rock 'n' Roll

The show is structured as it is now. Songs 10-11 are keith's set, 12 is the song which takes them to the b-stage, 13-15 is the b-stage, 20-21 are the final encores - and so on.

Ok, so the way you have it is a 'warhorse' as an opener, plus #3, #7, #12, #15, #16, #19, 20 & 21

Thats 9 songs a night evenly distributed throughout the show that EVERYONE will know. You can drop any one of those songs and replace with another which is as well known and (in practically all cases) which is also to be found on "40 Licks", which appears to be the 'benchmark' of recognisable 'classics' for even the most casual fan.

Obviously, you wouldnt change many of them per night (maybe 3 or 4) and some you would expect to hear maybe 80% of the time at least (You should certainly be expected to hear at least 3 out of their 4 best known songs - Satisfaction, JJ Flash, Brown Sugar and HT Women - at any one show)..and just because one of the classics gets played doesnt mean its alternate cant be slotted it in place of another 'rotating warhorse' from time to time (eg, you could open with JJF but still occasionally play Start Me Up later in the show, say as track 15 on the b-stage). You could even move Paint It Black to be an occasional opener (what a beginning to a show THAT would be). The important thing is that there are a certain number of 'slots' in the show where you have a warhorse. A show obviously needs a certain number to retain some momentum.

Of the others, song #6 is the 'rarely played' slot, #9 is the classic cover, #10-11 are Keith's set (one slow one, one rocker - the way he seems to like to pace it, with one of the songs being one of the new songs). There are 4 slots for ABB songs, including Keith's one. Again, like the warhorses, these could be moved around. They could play Rough Justice on the b-stage and still play ONNYA at song #4, similar to what they do at the minute.

The only song I havent listed an alternative for is 'Miss You'. Whilst its the one warhorse I think sounds the most tired of all, its performed at a pivotal point of the show from a technical standpoint as its when the band are moved out to the b-stage. I cant really think of a suitable alternative which is as recognisable, similar in length and style and which Mick would play guitar on while the stage moves.

So, with minimal tweaks to the existing setlist, the fan can go to a Stones show, know hes getting a requisite number of warhorses, but the element of surprise is still there because even if youve been following the tour from city to city or online, you CANT reasonably predict what the Stones are going to play on any given evening. Theres no real extra effort required on the band's part as for the most part these songs have already been played or are at least pretty fresh to them and/or recently rehearsed or recorded. I'm being uncharacteristically generous by not being too insistent on adding new songs that have been long lost to the setlist. They could add them in as the tour progresses in the appropriate 'slots' as they please.

And to reiterate, I'm not suggesting that they should be changing 10-15 songs per night or anything like that (even though its doable). Maybe even 5-8 per show - even over the one nighters and not (as is the case at the minute) keeping the rarely played stuff for places where theyve visited earlier in thr tour. The key is that its not the SAME 5-8 'slots' in the show per night. Change them around - 2-3 of the warhorses per night, maybe 1 of Keith's, 1 of the covers, 1 of the new songs, 1 'rarity' , 1 or 2 of the album tracks.

The magic is that you go to a show and always will come away surprised, yet satisfied. And the band can keep a show fresh and wont ever be in danger of auto pilot, without having to overreach themselves.

Pick your own setlist at random out of those selections in that order (and taking into account the warhorses can move around in the set) and I doubt anyone would complain



CHUCK are you taking notes!?
14th March 2006 02:23 PM
Gazza
quote:
speedfreakjive wrote:


With all due respect Gazza, Tumbling Dice and Brown Sugar simply HAVE to be played every show; they are too good.




You could make that argument about any song that is popular and which you or I happen to like. Like I said, youd expect maybe 3 of the "Big 4" that EVERYONE knows (JJF, HTW, BS, Satisfaction) to be played every night.

I would argue that the Stones have enough great songs in their canon to allow any song to be rested once in a while (even if in a couple of cases its one show in 8 or 10 or so). Dylan hasnt played 'Blowin' In the Wind' for years even though he changes his setlist around every night. Similarly, although he played 130 different songs on his last tour, Springsteen didnt play "Born to Run" once and if he played "Born in the USA" - his other most famous song - I must have missed it. I saw both acts last year and didnt hear any complaints about one particular well known song being omitted, as the shows otherwise stood on their own merits.
14th March 2006 02:25 PM
Gazza
quote:
keefjunkie wrote:


CHUCK are you taking notes!?



Chuck isnt the problem, mate, when it comes to the band's reluctance to mix the show around. You need look no further than Mick for that.
14th March 2006 02:37 PM
Maxlugar Don't want a boring set? Simple.

Keep them out of Omaha.

Stones feed off their audience, so...
[Edited by Maxlugar]
Page: 1 2
Search for information in the wet page, the archives and this board:

PicoSearch
The Rolling Stones World Tour 2005 Rolling Stones Bigger Bang Tour 2005 2006 Rolling Stones Forum - Rolling Stones Message Board - Mick Jagger - Keith Richards - Brian Jones - Charlie Watts - Ian Stewart - Stu - Bill Wyman - Mick Taylor - Ronnie Wood - Ron Wood - Rolling Stones 2005 Tour - Farewell Tour - Rolling Stones: Onstage World Tour A Bigger Bang US Tour

NEW: SEARCH ZONE:
Search for goods, you'll find the impossible collector's item!!!
Enter artist an start searching using "Power Search" (RECOMMENDED)