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Topic: William F. Buckley....RIP Return to archive Page: 1 2 3
27th February 2008 11:33 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:
Lethargy wrote:

Only very small men would spew such venom about someone on the day of their death. Nuff said.





I gave Hunter S. Thompson three days...not out of any respect for him, but for all them wavy gravy types sitting out front of Starbucks dressed in black...

Speaking of black...Buckley's Blackford Oakes novels were very good...makes me think the dude could do anything
28th February 2008 12:26 AM
Brainbell Jangler Buckley had a first-rate mind and wit and the intellectual honesty to oppose the War on Drugs. He earned my respect. The thuggish threat to Gore Vidal was an uncharacteristic low point for him. Posting that gaffe dishonored his memory far more than my calling it what it was.
28th February 2008 01:19 AM
sirmoonie
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Buckley had a first-rate mind and wit and the intellectual honesty to oppose the War on Drugs. He earned my respect. The thuggish threat to Gore Vidal was an uncharacteristic low point for him. Posting that gaffe dishonored his memory far more than my calling it what it was.


Buckley should have up and flat cold blasted his goddam ass!

Anyway, Buckley only found god on the illegal drugs issue when he realized the war on drugs was irrevocably lost. Which is fine, I'm just saying he wasn't always pro-drugs. I'm just saying is all. And thats all I'm saying.
28th February 2008 01:38 AM
Brainbell Jangler
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:

Buckley should have up and flat cold blasted his goddam ass!

Anyway, Buckley only found god on the illegal drugs issue when he realized the war on drugs was irrevocably lost. Which is fine, I'm just saying he wasn't always pro-drugs. I'm just saying is all. And thats all I'm saying.


Buckley was too smart to buy into the "Anti-drug prohibition = pro-drugs" canard. I thought you were, too, moonie. It's the old "Everything that is not forbidden is compulsory" fallacy.
28th February 2008 12:44 PM
monkey_man
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Buckley had a first-rate mind and wit and the intellectual honesty to oppose the War on Drugs. He earned my respect. The thuggish threat to Gore Vidal was an uncharacteristic low point for him.


I'd say this quote was a much lower point for him. . .

Buckley quote from National Review, 1957:

“The central question that emerges … is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not prevail numerically? The sobering answer is Yes — the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists.”
28th February 2008 12:55 PM
sirmoonie
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:

Buckley was too smart to buy into the "Anti-drug prohibition = pro-drugs" canard. I thought you were, too, moonie. It's the old "Everything that is not forbidden is compulsory" fallacy.


Canardwise, I'm smart enough to not to buy into it. Rhetorically though, I emphasize it. Its a goose-for-gander/hoist-with-own-petard type deal sitch. I thought you were smart enough to see that.
28th February 2008 01:05 PM
Riffhard Well there can be no doubt that everyone has quotes that they'd wished they'd of never uttered. Buckley was certainly no exception. He could hardley be called a racsit though. He completely dissavowed the John Birch Society due to it's blatant racism and antisemitism.

I always thought that it was hysterical that he sailed into to international waters just so he could try pot leagally. LOL! It was also classic Buckley who, when running for mayor of NYC, said that had he won the first thing he'd do was demand a recount! LOL! The guy had a rapier wit.



Riffy
28th February 2008 03:43 PM
Scottfree
quote:
monkey_man wrote:


I'd say this quote was a much lower point for him. . .

Buckley quote from National Review, 1957:

“The central question that emerges … is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not prevail numerically? The sobering answer is Yes — the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists.”




I'm not sure why this is perceived as racist (guess you can't point out facts when it comes to race), people have their head in the sand if they don't think caucassions are cultrually superior to negroes. Just one look at Africa is all you need.... I should've preficed this by stating I'm not the reason for whitey being culturally superior by any means, I'm just a dumbass hillbill....
28th February 2008 05:48 PM
lotsajizz
quote:
Scottfree wrote:


I'm not sure why this is perceived as racist (guess you can't point out facts when it comes to race), people have their head in the sand if they don't think caucassions are cultrually superior to negroes. Just one look at Africa is all you need.... I should've preficed this by stating I'm not the reason for whitey being culturally superior by any means, I'm just a dumbass hillbill....



!
28th February 2008 06:17 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:
Scottfree wrote:


I'm not sure why this is perceived as racist (guess you can't point out facts when it comes to race), people have their head in the sand if they don't think caucassions are cultrually superior to negroes. Just one look at Africa is all you need.... I should've preficed this by stating I'm not the reason for whitey being culturally superior by any means, I'm just a dumbass hillbill....




Well...only a complete idiot lives their life believing people are "equal"...not even those who think or openly say that's the case actually believe it...the best examples of racism stem from paternalism...and it's those same paternalistic people who see what approaches equality as racism...as their paternalistic world view will not allow them to think that those they deem inferior (but will never admit they deem them inferior) can succeed without their help or the help of society...oh...they'll tell you their help is needed due to generations of oppression...but that's bunk...and if they were capable of thinking beyond their guilt, they would see it as bunk themselves...but the urge to feel good about oneself often trumps reason...

I find racism born of compassion, affluence, and paternalism far more offensive than it is in its raw state...with the latter, at least people know where they stand...and can plan accordingly...with the former, you always have to wonder what they're saying about you behind your back...I see these Kiplings and I want to punch them in the face

I believe it was James Evans, senior, not junior, who put is best when he exclaimed, to the uppity black gentleman who came to his door, upset that his daughter was dating a boy living in Cabrini-Green..."Ain't chu heard!!!!!...There's niggers up in here!!!!"


[Edited by Fiji Joe]
28th February 2008 06:36 PM
Joey " Well...only a complete idiot lives their life believing people are "equal"...not even those who think or openly say that's the case actually believe it...the best examples of racism stem from paternalism...and it's those same paternalistic people who see what approaches equality as racism...as their paternalistic world view will not allow them to think that those they deem inferior (but will never admit they deem them inferior) can succeed without their help or the help of society...oh...they'll tell you their help is needed due to generations of oppression...but that's bunk...and "

28th February 2008 07:09 PM
glencar I have decided to re-subscribe to Nat'l Review.
28th February 2008 07:10 PM
glencar
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:


I think Gore Vidal has had many moments of stripping urbane veneer off of men....

And stuffing it back into himself!
28th February 2008 07:14 PM
glencar William F. Buckley was the original enfant terrible.

As with Ronald Reagan, everyone prefers to remember great men when they weren't being great, but later, when they were being admired. Having changed the world, there came a point when Buckley no longer needed to shock it.

But to call Buckley an "enfant terrible" and then to recall only his days as a grandee is like calling a liberal actress "courageous." Back in the day, Buckley truly was courageous. I prefer to remember the Buckley who scandalized the bien-pensant.

Other tributes will contain the obvious quotes about demanding a recount if he won the New York mayoral election and trusting the first 2000 names in the Boston telephone book more than the Harvard faculty. I shall revel in the "terrible" aspects of the enfant terrible.

Buckley's first book, God and Man at Yale, was met with the usual thoughtful critiques of anyone who challenges the liberal establishment. Frank Ashburn wrote in the Saturday Review: "The book is one which has the glow and appeal of a fiery cross on a hillside at night. There will undoubtedly be robed figures who gather to it, but the hoods will not be academic. They will cover the face."

The president of Yale sent alumni thousands of copies of McGeorge Bundy's review of the book from the Atlantic Monthly calling Buckley a "twisted and ignorant young man." Other reviews bordered on the hyperbolic. One critic simply burst into tears, then transcribed his entire crying jag word for word.

Buckley's next book, McCarthy and His Enemies, written with L. Brent Bozell, proved that normal people didn't have to wait for the Venona Papers to be declassified to see that the Democratic Party was collaborating with fascists. The book -- and the left's reaction thereto -- demonstrated that liberals could tolerate a communist sympathizer, but never a Joe McCarthy sympathizer.

Relevant to Republicans' predicament today, National Review did not endorse a candidate for president in 1956, correctly concluding that Dwight Eisenhower was not a conservative, however great a military leader he had been. In his defense, Ike never demanded that camps housing enemy detainees be closed down.

Nor would National Review endorse liberal Republican Richard Nixon, waiting until 1964 to enthusiastically support a candidate for president who had no hope of winning. Barry Goldwater, though given the right things to say -- often by Buckley or Bozell, who wrote Goldwater's Conscience of a Conservative -- was not particularly bright.

But the Goldwater candidacy, Buckley believed, would provide "the well-planted seeds of hope," eventually fulfilled by Ronald Reagan. Goldwater was sort of the army ant on whose body Reagan walked to greatness. Thanks, Barry. When later challenged on Reagan's intellectual stature, Buckley said: "Of course, he will always tend to reach first for an anecdote. But then, so does the New Testament."

With liberal Republicans still bothering everyone even after Reagan, Buckley went all out against liberal Republican Sen. Lowell P. Weicker Jr. When Democrat Joe Lieberman challenged Weicker for the Senate in 1988, National Review ran an article subtly titled: "Does Lowell Weicker Make You Sick?"

Buckley started a political action committee to support Lieberman, explaining, "We want to pass the word that it's OK to vote for the other guy or stay at home." The good thing about Lieberman, Buckley said, was that he "doesn't have the tendency of appalling you every time he opens his mouth."

That same year, when the radical chic composer Leonard Bernstein complained about the smearing of the word "liberal," Buckley replied: "Lenny does not realize that one of the reasons the 'L' word is discredited is that it was handled by such as Leonard Bernstein." The composer was so unnerved by this remark that, just to cheer himself up, he invited several extra Black Panthers to his next cocktail party.

When Arthur Schlesinger Jr. objected to his words being used as a jacket-flap endorsement on one of Buckley's books in 1963, Buckley replied by telegram:

"MY OFFICE HAS COPY OF ORIGINAL TAPE. TELL ARTHUR THAT'LL TEACH HIM TO USE UNCTION IN POLITICAL DEBATE BUT NOT TO TAKE IT SO HARD: NO ONE BELIEVES ANYTHING HE SAYS ANYWAY."

In a famous exchange with Gore Vidal in 1968, Vidal said to Buckley: "As far as I am concerned, the only crypto Nazi I can think of is yourself."

Buckley replied: "Now listen, you queer. Stop calling me a crypto Nazi, or I'll sock you in your goddamn face and you'll stay plastered."

Years later, in 1985, Buckley said of the incident: "We both acted irresponsibly. I'm not a Nazi, but he is, I suppose, a fag."

Writing in defense of the rich in 1967, Buckley said: "My guess is, that the last man to corner the soybean market, whoever he was, put at least as much time and creative energy into the cornering of it as, say, Norman Mailer put into his latest novel and produced something far more bearable -- better a rise in the price of soybeans than 'Why Are We in Vietnam?'" (For you kids out there, Norman Mailer was an America-hating drunkard who wrote books.)

Some of Buckley's best lines were uttered in court during a lengthy libel trial in the '80s against National Review brought by the Liberty Lobby, which was then countersued by National Review. (The Liberty Lobby lost and NR won.)

Irritated by attorney Mark Lane's questions, Buckley asked the judge: "Your Honor, when he asks a ludicrous question, how am I supposed to behave?"

In response to another of Lane's questions, Buckley said: "I decline to answer that question; it's too stupid."

When asked if he had "referred to Jesse Jackson as an ignoramus," Buckley said, "If I didn't, I should have."

Buckley may have been a conservative celebrity, but there was a lot more to him than a bow tie and a sailboat.
28th February 2008 07:25 PM
Brainbell Jangler
quote:
Scottfree wrote:


I'm not sure why this is perceived as racist (guess you can't point out facts when it comes to race), people have their head in the sand if they don't think caucassions are cultrually superior to negroes. Just one look at Africa is all you need.... I should've preficed this by stating I'm not the reason for whitey being culturally superior by any means, I'm just a dumbass hillbill....


Yup, we's cultrually soopeeryer to tham niggras, awrite. We spelz beter, tue.
28th February 2008 07:25 PM
Riffhard Great article! Thanks Blue.


Riffy
28th February 2008 07:30 PM
glencar She's the best...
28th February 2008 07:35 PM
Riffhard
quote:
glencar wrote:
She's the best...




Anne was rather subdued for this article. She quite obviously had a lot of respect for Buckley. Which, of course, makes perfect sense.


Riffy
28th February 2008 08:54 PM
TampabayStone
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:



Well...only a complete idiot lives their life believing people are "equal"...not even those who think or openly say that's the case actually believe it...the best examples of racism stem from paternalism...and it's those same paternalistic people who see what approaches equality as racism...as their paternalistic world view will not allow them to think that those they deem inferior (but will never admit they deem them inferior) can succeed without their help or the help of society...oh...they'll tell you their help is needed due to generations of oppression...but that's bunk...and if they were capable of thinking beyond their guilt, they would see it as bunk themselves...but the urge to feel good about oneself often trumps reason...

I find racism born of compassion, affluence, and paternalism far more offensive than it is in its raw state...with the latter, at least people know where they stand...and can plan accordingly...with the former, you always have to wonder what they're saying about you behind your back...I see these Kiplings and I want to punch them in the face

I believe it was James Evans, senior, not junior, who put is best when he exclaimed, to the uppity black gentleman who came to his door, upset that his daughter was dating a boy living in Cabrini-Green..."Ain't chu heard!!!!!...There's niggers up in here!!!!"


[Edited by Fiji Joe]



Nice! When you can bring a James Evans quote into a post, well, that's just postin'.
28th February 2008 09:01 PM
Zack
quote:
TampabayStone wrote:


Nice! When you can bring a James Evans quote into a post, well, that's just postin'.



Thelma was hot.
28th February 2008 09:16 PM
TampabayStone
quote:
Zack wrote:


Thelma was hot.



Word! I still run a batch to her now and again.
28th February 2008 10:07 PM
Glimmer Twin
quote:
Scottfree wrote:
RIP Mr. Buckley, one of the true greats, dude sliced and diced the left.....



He was one of my true idols, someone I consider a giant. I am saddened by his passing. I remember as a teenage geek watching Firing Line and thought it was amazing. And I grew up absorbing his magazine National Review. I'm surprised that so many people here also appreciated Bill Buckley.
[Edited by Glimmer Twin]
28th February 2008 10:31 PM
andrews27 Approved of JFK's death? CIA-backed media shill? There are no giants in the earth today.
[Edited by andrews27]
28th February 2008 11:30 PM
Scottfree
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottfree wrote:


I'm not sure why this is perceived as racist (guess you can't point out facts when it comes to race), people have their head in the sand if they don't think caucassions are cultrually superior to negroes. Just one look at Africa is all you need.... I should've preficed this by stating I'm not the reason for whitey being culturally superior by any means, I'm just a dumbass hillbill....



Yup, we's cultrually soopeeryer to tham niggras, awrite. We spelz beter, tue.




prefaced, caucasian, culturally.... better? Thanks for the spell check.... Now listen, you queer, stop correcting me or I will sock you in your goddamn face, and you will stay plastered.

28th February 2008 11:32 PM
glencar
quote:
Scottfree wrote:


prefaced, caucasian, culturally.... better? Thanks for the spell check.... Now listen, you queer, stop correcting me or I will sock you in your goddamn face, and you will stay plastered.



LOL Don't worry, Scottfree, that idiot can't spell certain words. Funny that he would harp on someone else's spelling...
29th February 2008 05:37 PM
Brainbell Jangler
quote:
glencar wrote:
LOL Don't worry, Scottfree, that idiot can't spell certain words. Funny that he would harp on someone else's spelling...


Which words? Wichita? Big deal. We can't all be as big a Glen Campbell fan as you are.
29th February 2008 05:52 PM
monkey_man
quote:
Scottfree wrote:


prefaced, caucasian, culturally.... better? Thanks for the spell check.... Now listen, you queer, stop correcting me or I will sock you in your goddamn face, and you will stay plastered.





Doesn't feel too good to be judged as inferior for your spelling abilities, does it? At least you can change that. . .
[Edited by monkey_man]
29th February 2008 06:15 PM
pdog
quote:
Scottfree wrote:


prefaced, caucasian, culturally.... better? Thanks for the spell check.... Now listen, you queer, stop correcting me or I will sock you in your goddamn face, and you will stay plastered.






fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
29th February 2008 07:23 PM
Brainbell Jangler
quote:
monkey_man wrote:


Doesn't feel too good to be judged as inferior for your spelling abilities, does it? At least you can change that. . .
[Edited by monkey_man]


Perhaps the point was too subtle. It wasn't merely the spelling errors, which I would ordinarily ignore. It was the comically ironic juxtaposition of those errors with Scottfree's assertion of racial superiority (one assumes Scottfree is white and was asserting that alleged superiority on his own behalf while justifying Bill Buckley's racist rant from the Fifties) combined with the astonishing use of the archaic term "negroes."
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler]
29th February 2008 07:33 PM
pdog I prefer the term naggers!
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