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Topic: Keith & Open Tunings? Return to archive Page: 1 2 3
2nd March 2006 08:24 AM
Mel Belli I believe studio SFM was open-D. No way it was standard.
2nd March 2006 09:04 AM
vox12string Begging to differ but both, Can't be Satisfied & Little Red Rooster are in open g, way before HTW, or are we talking about Keith's first open g
2nd March 2006 09:21 AM
nanatod "'Silver Train' has Taylor doing the slide in open G, so does 'All down the Line' and 'Soul Survivor'"

Those three songs have always been in my personal top five of Stones songs, and I, a non-musician, who always liked hearing slide guitar, now understand why those three resonate with me.
[Edited by nanatod]
2nd March 2006 09:37 AM
voodoopug
quote:
speedfreakjive wrote:
[quote]
SFM: open G and standard[unquote]

you are totally wrong here my friend.



Sorry, he is dead on, my old band even played it that way as well.

There is a capo on the open tuned guitar (on 2nd fret I beleive, if not, then the fourth) and the other guitar part (my part!) is played standard in the key of B when I play it.
2nd March 2006 09:39 AM
speedfreakjive
quote:
voodoopug wrote:


Sorry, he is dead on, my old band even played it that way as well.

There is a capo on the open tuned guitar (on 2nd fret I beleive, if not, then the fourth) and the other guitar part (my part!) is played standard in the key of B when I play it.



sure, its always played live like that. But on record the guitars are most definitely tuned to an open D or similar, this is the sound. Try it out. E B E Ab B E.
2nd March 2006 01:58 PM
Mel Belli SpeedFreakJive is right, no doubt about it. Excluding the single-only HTW, there is no open-G played by Mick or Keith on a studio album until "Sticky Fingers."
[Edited by Mel Belli]
2nd March 2006 06:42 PM
theanchorman
quote:
voodoopug wrote:

Rocks Off and Rip This joint are not played in open tuning.



Rocks off is
2nd March 2006 07:44 PM
Mel Belli Good God, no it isn't!
2nd March 2006 07:46 PM
speedfreakjive for crying out loud!!

the second part of the opening riff is played on the 4th fret- OPEN G

[Edited by speedfreakjive]
2nd March 2006 07:55 PM
theanchorman
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
Good God, no it isn't!



I have just started posting after browsing this forum for 4 or more years because of nimwits like yourself.

Prepare to be schooled...

Also - besides it's musical appeal & blues uses...Keith took to open G because it's a hell of a lot easier to play the I, IV & V chords in open tuning than in standard tuning - especially for someone with small hands like Keith..

NEXT!
2nd March 2006 11:38 PM
ebmp If Rocks Off is in Open G, why does he play it live in standard?
3rd March 2006 12:10 AM
Mel Belli
quote:
theanchorman wrote:


I have just started posting after browsing this forum for 4 or more years because of nimwits like yourself.

Prepare to be schooled...

Also - besides it's musical appeal & blues uses...Keith took to open G because it's a hell of a lot easier to play the I, IV & V chords in open tuning than in standard tuning - especially for someone with small hands like Keith..

NEXT!



I'm sorry you feel that way. Really. Nonetheless, you're wrong. The trend of the last 30-odd years is that Keith has transferred into open G, for the sake of simplicity that you so eloquently describe, songs that he orignally played in standard or another tuning -- i.e., "Stray Cat Blues," "Let's Spend the Night Together" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want."

As others have pointed out, Keith now, or has recently, played "Rocks Off" in standard. I defy you to come up with another song that was originally in an open tuning but is now in standard. You can't, because there is none.

Now, you prepare for schooling.
[Edited by Mel Belli]
3rd March 2006 01:16 AM
Altamont
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:


I defy you to come up with another song that was originally in an open tuning but is now in standard. You can't, because there is none.

Now, you prepare for schooling.
[Edited by Mel Belli]




Gimme Shelter
3rd March 2006 04:45 AM
Mathijs >>
As others have pointed out, Keith now, or has recently, played "Rocks Off" in standard.
>>

Rocks Off is in standard tuning. You can hear the low E just after the "scratch" after bar 2. Second, playing the intro in open G makes a very awkward stretched fingering position necessary.

>>
I defy you to come up with another song that was originally in an open tuning but is now in standard. You can't, because there is none.
>>

Just to name a few:
Parachute Women and Jumping Jack (on R&R Circus, NME Pollwinners for JJF), Salt of the Earth, Gimme Shelter, You Gotta Move (or. open D), I Got the Blues, Sweet Black Angel, Stop Breaking Down, Black Limousine, Rip This Joint, She's So Cold (last tour).

It's Only R&R went from standard to open G, then standard again.

About SFM and the first time open G by Keith/Stones: I am not convinced that Brian Jones played anything in open G. Little Red Rooster sounds much more open E to me (you hear the slide vibrato on the low G chord, which is not possible if G is the open string position). Open G is already known since the 17th century, was widely used in the 1920's and 1930's as a slide and banjo tuning, but forgotten since the '40's. When the original blues musicians were "rediscovered", very few were actually playing open G, most were playing open E and D. My belief is that open G entered the Stones camp with the arrival of Ry Cooder, not before. Cooder used the tuning already since 1965 (for example the opening track on the first Beefheart LP), and my guess is that Cooder and Taj Mahal showed Keith the open G tuning. The first tracks with open G are all played by Cooder: Something Better, Sister Morphine, Memo from Turner and the acoustic on Downtown Suzie. Keith’s first ever open G was on Street Fighting Man: you hear at least three acoustics: one standard, one open D and one open G with a capo, used more as a percussive instrument. On the “Pay Your Dues” outtake the open G guitar is clearer. Then the tuning was used on Honky Tonk Women. Throughout 1969 Keith tried open G several times: Going Down, Jiving Sister Fanny, I Don’t Know Why (I Love You), the acoustic All Down the Line, As 1970 didn’t have a release, the open G tuning of course then shows up for the first time on a record, surprisingly on two Jagger/Taylor-songs (Sway and Moonlight Mile) and two Jagger songs (Brown Sugar and I Got the Blues).

Mathijs

3rd March 2006 06:25 AM
Mel Belli
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
Just to name a few:
Parachute Women and Jumping Jack (on R&R Circus, NME Pollwinners for JJF), Salt of the Earth, Gimme Shelter, You Gotta Move (or. open D), I Got the Blues, Sweet Black Angel, Stop Breaking Down, Black Limousine, Rip This Joint, She's So Cold (last tour).



"Gimme Shelter" is a true exception. Throw out the R&R Circus, as that entire affair was an anomaly. "Salt" has only been played once, twice if you consider the 9/11 gig. "I Got the Blues," "Angel," and "Black Limo" all sound like standard to me. "Angel" very clearly has an open-position E-minor chord in there...

"She's So Cold" is no longer in open-G for the simple reason that Keith stopped playing rhythm guitar on it! But I hereby recant my absolutist assertion above

In any case, we can all agree that "Rocks Off" is in standard.
[Edited by Mel Belli]
3rd March 2006 06:31 AM
Jumacfly this thread is great!!
anyone can tell my how to play like Bill??(I just got the step one: don t move and dont smile)
3rd March 2006 07:16 AM
Mathijs
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
"Gimme Shelter" is a true exception. Throw out the R&R Circus, as that entire affair was an anomaly. "Salt" has only been played once, twice if you consider the 9/11 gig. "I Got the Blues," "Angel," and "Black Limo" all sound like standard to me. "Angel" very clearly has an open-position E-minor chord in there...
"She's So Cold" is no longer in open-G for the simple reason that Keith stopped playing rhythm guitar on it! But I hereby recant my absolutist assertion above
In any case, we can all agree that "Rocks Off" is in standard.
[Edited by Mel Belli]



Salt has been played about 5 times if I am not mistaken (twice in '89, three times in 2002/2003).

Black Limo:The rythm guitar on the studio Black Limousine by Keith is open G (check out the Csus4 chords in the main rythm), on the '81 tour he played it in standard tuning.

I Got The Blues was specifically written in open G, as commented by Keith, and the main rythm guitar (the opening guitar) is in open G.

Angel: I think you're right. I always assumed it was open E, but you're right about the Eminor chord.

Mathijs
3rd March 2006 08:18 AM
theanchorman
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:


I'm sorry you feel that way. Really. Nonetheless, you're wrong. The trend of the last 30-odd years is that Keith has transferred into open G, for the sake of simplicity that you so eloquently describe, songs that he orignally played in standard or another tuning -- i.e., "Stray Cat Blues," "Let's Spend the Night Together" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want."

As others have pointed out, Keith now, or has recently, played "Rocks Off" in standard. I defy you to come up with another song that was originally in an open tuning but is now in standard. You can't, because there is none.

Now, you prepare for schooling.
[Edited by Mel Belli]



Whatever dude....Rocks Off was originally an open G song - regardless how he plays it now...

And I know he has played Gimmie Shelter in std tuning as of late - and that is a song that was originally written in open E tuning. So up your ass my friend!
3rd March 2006 08:29 AM
speedfreakjive
quote:
theanchorman wrote:


Whatever dude....Rocks Off was originally an open G song - regardless how he plays it now...

And I know he has played Gimmie Shelter in std tuning as of late - and that is a song that was originally written in open E tuning. So up your ass my friend!



spot on, I said this before.
3rd March 2006 08:46 AM
Mel Belli Suit yourselves ... Good luck finding a low E note on a five-string guitar tuned to open G.
3rd March 2006 08:52 AM
speedfreakjive What makes you think that he didn't just leave the bottom E on this time?
3rd March 2006 08:57 AM
speedfreakjive Happy is also in Open G.
As is Tumbling Dice, and Loving Cup
3rd March 2006 09:08 AM
Maxlugar Keith has stated, fairly recently, that Child of the Moon was his first recorded open G song.

I own all of you.

Your owner,

Maxy!

3rd March 2006 10:13 AM
Mel Belli
quote:
speedfreakjive wrote:
What makes you think that he didn't just leave the bottom E on this time?



Because if he had, it would have to have been tuned to D. And as Mathijs noted, that would make for a very awkward voicing...
3rd March 2006 02:44 PM
John Wood I thought Child of the Moon was open D??????
3rd March 2006 04:24 PM
Chuck Try this open G tuning if you don't want to take the low string off:

D-G-D-G-B-D
low....High

3rd March 2006 04:28 PM
mcclellan28
quote:
HardKnoxDurtySox wrote:
Not to burst your bubble but Keith had next to nothing to do with writing two of those songs you mention.



Really? So, who wrote "Brown Sugar," "Start Me Up," and "Sad, Sad, Sad?" Mick Taylor and Ron Wood?
3rd March 2006 05:41 PM
Throwaway Mick wrote BS by himself in Australia. He also wrote Sad Sad Sad and plays the riff (see Atlantic City 89 DVD).

Question for Mathjis:
I didnt notice that Keith plays Black Limo live in standard, does he just play the G's, C's, and D's with sus4's for the rhythm (at the 12th, 5th, 7th frets respectively)?
3rd March 2006 06:20 PM
oldkr http://www.oldkr.co.uk/playingguides.htm
3rd March 2006 06:25 PM
Throwaway wow that site is the shiznay! thanks!
[Edited by Throwaway]
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