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| Sir Stonesalot |
I find Brian Jones to be quite fascinating. But then again, I find Hitler to be fascinating. I certainly don't mean that I approved of Hitler or his actions...I just am fascinated by anyone who could cause such a horrific episode of human history. The same with Pol Pot. A heinous individual, but fascinating none the less.
Brian was a talented musician. There is no question that without his drive early on, the Stones would have folded by '64....or at least never advanced much beyond a pub band. My hat is off to him for that. But like Gypsy, I'm not a fan of the way he treated his women and children. By all accounts, Brian was a true SOB. I have a big problem with people who want to lionize the guy and look at his life through rose colored glasses. You simply can't gloss over the fact that Brian smacked around his chicks, and ignored his bastard children. Well, I can't gloss it over anyhow.
It's like Bobby Jones. Bobby Jones was a legend on the golf courses of the world. The first "great" of the modern game. Everyone loves to talk about his contributions to modernizing, and popularizing the game...how important a figure he was in the game of golf...yet, no one ever talks about what a racist pig he was. In fact, lots of people make excuses for him..."He was just a product of his time." I never understood that argument. Just because lots and lots of white people felt the same way as Bobby Jones at the time doesn't make it OK. It also doesn't mean that we should simply dismiss that part of his life.
Yet look at Ty Cobb! Generally considered to be one of the best hitters the game of baseball has ever seen. And a complete racist prick. And it's never glossed over with Ty Cobb. Every biography I've ever read takes great pains to point out what a racist bastard the guy was.
So why the double standard? Why is it OK to brand Ty Cobb a racist prick, but not Bobby Jones? It isn't OK at all. Just like it's not OK to brand Joe Schmoe for beating his woman, and let Brian slide just because he started the Rolling Stones.
I do not care what kind of emotional strain someone is under...there is no excuse for beating women and being a deadbeat dad.
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| glencar |
The product of one's time line works for me. Say 100 years from now people are shocked that people drive SUVs. It seems like ordinary behavior in today's society but standards change. BTW I'm aware that this isn't the best analogy but I'm sure Mr. Motels or someone can come up with a better one soon enough. |
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| Gazza |
>But like Gypsy, I'm not a fan of the way he treated his women and children. By all accounts, Brian was a true SOB. I have a big problem with people who want to lionize the guy and look at his life through rose colored glasses. You simply can't gloss over the fact that Brian smacked around his chicks, and ignored his bastard children. Well, I can't gloss it over anyhow.
agree with you and Gypsy 100%.
which is why I can understand a few residents objecting to having a street named after him (even if I dont necessarily agree with them).
Inspirational and influential musician...yes...
a human being worth admiring? No way.
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| Sir Stonesalot |
You are right Glencar, that is a bad analogy.
And it really misses the point. If someone was a racist that fact should be acknowledged. If they beat women, or if they are a deadbeat dad, it should be acknowledged. If we are going to make heroes of people, you can't just sweep the ugly shit under the rug. The ugly shit is part of them and should be noted, just like all the positive aspects.
Bobby Jones and Ty Cobb were from roughly the same era. Both men racists, yet everyone glosses over it with Bobby Jones, and hammers Ty Cobb for it. Why do news stories about Jim Brown always mention the fact that he was guilty of domestic violence, but it's glossed over with Brian Jones? Though not in the same profession, they did come from the same era.
These are just 2 instances that I can think of off the top of my head...I'm sure that there are hundreds more. My point is that it's not right to paint a pretty picture of one individual, and paint an ugly picture of someone else when both are guilty of the same thing. You can't have it both ways.
The main problem is that none of our icons are perfect. We can elevate people to a heroic level, but almost all of them have huge ugly skeletons in their closets. They don't really deserve to be where they are...but our society NEEDS to have icons and heroes. So the powers that be...be they in the media or part of the political machine...decide for us. They plaster some, and lionize others. It is a double standard, and it sucks.
I say give me all the info, and let me make MY OWN choices.
[Edited by Sir Stonesalot] |
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| Joey |
" I don't like the fact that he beat up his girlfriends, ignored his illegitimate children, etc... "
Personally , I LOVE that story .
J the Y !
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| glencar |
Working? |
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| Joey |
" Working? "
Nah , I am posting today because I have got a really shitty day at work tomorrow -- Won't be able to post much at all ....................................
" That Bitch Carly is ruining my life Ronnie !!!!! "
Jazzy
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| glencar |
Son of a bitch! Since when should work interfere with post production on a Stones site? |
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| Joey |
" Son of a bitch! Since when should work interfere with post production on a Stones site? "
I have it in my contract that work should NOT interfere with my post production .
Word !
J !!!
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| gypsy |
I have been enjoying my first Sunday off work. So far, I'm still wearing my pajamas and just devoured an entire pizza...but I did do laundry and eat an entire small pizza by myself. I am just preparing for my new schedule that begins tomorrow...yay! No more weekends, my friends. Unless the weather is lousy and I decide I want to make some extra $. But I usually go to joshy for that.
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
I find Brian Jones to be quite fascinating. But then again, I find Hitler to be fascinating. I certainly don't mean that I approved of Hitler or his actions...I just am fascinated by anyone who could cause such a horrific episode of human history. The same with Pol Pot. A heinous individual, but fascinating none the less.
So Brian is in the same categoty with Pol Pot and Hitler?
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Are you retarded?
The only thing Brian has in common with those tyrants is that I think they were all interesting figures. |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Are you retarded?
No, not at all. (But then again  )I was just analyising a piece of writing at face value.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
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| Joey |
" I'm still wearing my pajamas and just devoured an entire pizza...but I did do laundry and eat an entire small pizza by myself. I am just preparing for my new schedule that begins tomorrow..."
Well , there went the " Ball-ates !!! "
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[ Edited by Kid Joe ] |
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| gypsy |
No, I 'll do Ball-ates tomorrow. I just have to re-adjust to this new schedule. This new schedule gives me more BALL-ates time! Oh yeah. |
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| glencar |
Joey your contract is a work of beauty & integrity. Don't ever let the (HP) bastards get you down. |
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