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| Dandelion* |
They'd kick their asses on our dime.
Where's Fiji? I need his help in getting a picture up.
[Edited by Dandelion*] |
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| Dandelion* |
Damn - this must be a conspiracy. The Tri Lateral Commission, the Rockefellers, black helicopters and Frank Thoroughgood in the grassy knoll... |
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| sasca |
Thanks, Dandelion*. You and Miss U should give each other another chance.
SS - I'm not sure what the chances of success of extermination have to do with the morality. Anyway, might does not equal right. You are correct in saying that the most powerful write history - and they may convince people that they are right, but that does not make them so. Not unless you abandon yourself to a universe in which there are no values. And many greater philosophers than you or me have gone over this ground before.
A final point - military might is not the only form of strength. Consider the Italian peninsula during the rennaissance. It was divided into many feuding states which were prey to more militarily powerful nations. Yet those feuding states dwarf their conquerors in the history of humanity.
[Edited by sasca] |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
>Yet those feuding states dwarf their conquerors in the history of humanity.<
Sure....thousands of years later. You think any of those Rennaisance men give a shit about that now?
And for the record...I never said that "Might makes right" is correct...I just said that it is reality.
I think we'd all wish that there was no more violence in this world....not a very realistic goal though is it.
Blame the US and Israel all you want. It doesn't matter.
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| sasca |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
>Yet those feuding states dwarf their conquerors in the history of humanity.<
Sure....thousands of years later. You think any of those Rennaisance men give a shit about that now?
And for the record...I never said that "Might makes right" is correct...I just said that it is reality.
I think we'd all wish that there was no more violence in this world....not a very realistic goal though is it.
Blame the US and Israel all you want. It doesn't matter.
If 'might makes right' is Reality, then I think it is correct. If you follow the logic. I may be mistaken.
For what it's worth, those Italian states dominated the world then as well. (Five hundred or so years ago). And I don't just blame the US and Israel. I have had arguments defending them. I simply don't agree with everything they do.
[Edited by sasca] |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
Sasca: Were you the one who said you laugh when hunters
get killed in accidents? If not, sorry. If so, you call
JB a sick piece of shit for sticking up for his people?
Who is a sick piece of shit?
Josh stated that he thinks that Palestinians living in territories occupied by an invading foreign military should be exterminated. I assume he's envisioning a systematic genocide similar to the one that happened to "his people" at the hands of the Nazis. He even borrowed the Nazi's strategy of referring to their victims as some type of vermin so as to dehumanize them. That makes him a hypocrite on that point at best.
Who is a sick piece of shit? I'd say neither of them because neither can be taken seriously, but I do sometimes find it a bit amusing when one drunk mistakes his beer buddy for a deer and lets him have it, much the same way I find it amusing when someone dies imitating Jackass stunts, drag racing, inhaling butane, tightrope walking, bug chasing, John Bonhaming, snowmobiling on partially frozen lakes, or any other activity that proves Darwin was correct. I never find genocide funny and don't really know how you could seriously compare what Josh and Sasca said on the sick-o-meter. Unless you just wanted to take a shot at Sasca, which is fine. He's all whacky! |
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| Joey |
" Larry: Saw you in "Mother Jugs and Speed" last week.
Your finest work!! "
Bless You Tele .
I even had Raquel one night after filming .....
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| telecaster |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Josh stated that he thinks that Palestinians living in territories occupied by an invading foreign military should be exterminated. I assume he's envisioning a systematic genocide similar to the one that happened to "his people" at the hands of the Nazis. He even borrowed the Nazi's strategy of referring to their victims as some type of vermin so as to dehumanize them. That makes him a hypocrite on that point at best.
Sirmoonie: No one should exterminate or think of exterminating anyone at anytime.
At the same time, I don't know of anyone who drinks while deerhunting. In that situation, it is cleaning out the gene pool. |
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| glencar |
I've never called for anything less than a Palestinian state that is on an equal basis with Israel.
My comments towards sasca involved its unknowing recitation of "history" without having read up on it. We got into a big dust-up several weeks ago & I just knew sasca wouldn't bother educating itself on the matters of the world.
BTW Our President gave another kickass speech. Saddam should start arranging his exile post-haste. |
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| justforyou |
I watched the speech live too, and thought it was pretty caring until the president was overcome by his Iraq psychosis. How can so much time be spent on a personal vendetta against Saddam ? Pathetic. |
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| justforyou |
Besides we all know Saddam is a mean mother, but that cannot justify an unprovoked attack killing thousands of Iraqi's. That could place the attacker in the same category as Saddam himself. It's really sad to see this all wound up and very hard for the president to back out of. |
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| Riffhard |
Good God! What is it about you liberals?! Did you not hear a thing that was said last night?! Saddam has loads of WMD!! Everyone knows that! Even the French and Germans know it!
Why the left continues to accuse Bush of being the bad guy here is beyond me. Saddam is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF OVER FIVE MILLION PEOPLE in the last tywenty years! Yet the lib idiots continue to accuse their own president of being the bad guy! This is why some people accuse you jerks of being unpatriotic and un-American! You can't see the forest for the trees.
When Slick Willie went into Kosovo noone said a word! Hell,"Old Europe" did not even seek any UN resolutions! The reason is painfully obvious. The problem was in their backyard. They needed the US to come to the rescue. We gladly obliged. Slobodon Milosofuck was nowwhere near as treacherous as Saddam. The left in this country and "Old Europe" easily seem to forget this little fact! Hypocrits!!!
Saddam is right now sending out death certificats to all his scientists. Just a little "reminder" of what will happen to them and their entire family should they slip up with any nasty secrets! Don't you libs find it a little bit F'ed up that out of 16 scientists to be interveiwed all 16 of them have refused to do so without their "friends" present?!
Wake up and park your political leanings in the rear. The country and the world MUST be rid of Saddam. He has stated many many times that his goal is the complete distruction of the USA! What more do you need?!
I'm convinced that the liberals and "Old Europe" won't be happy until Saddam unleashes some chemical or biological weapons inside the USA killing thousands. Ofcourse then the libs will line up and accuse Bush of being lax on homeland security!
Well all you pansy assed libs,you'll be happy to know that with George W. Bush in office,Saddam won't be a problem for much longer. At that time the world and all the libs here will owe him and or brave men and women in the military a huge debt of thanks!!
As for the right leaning conservatives,of which I gladly count myself. All we will owe the libs is a bloody nose in '04!!
Riffhard
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| ~AzQb |
Hey RiFfErBoY!
...i really missed your posts, man. I'm glad yer "back" 
~ |
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| glencar |
Great posts, Riff! I wonder how much appause there'd be if THIS Prez bombed an aspirin factory? The hypocrisy by some is deafening. We have aa nutty tyrant who won't conform to international standards & laws and it's time for him to go. Would folks be happier if we sent Algore there to bore him to death? Ain't gonna happen. Bombs are necessary. I feel tremendous sorrow for those who will die because of this. I wish it would end quietly but that prospect is highly dubious. |
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| JaggaRichards |
Just get the job done.... |
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| sasca |
Shut up, glencar, you fool. You repeatedly accuse me of not knowing any history, yet you seem not even to have read my posts (see the Palestinian issue) and your own knowledge seems confined to having heard of a rumour that there was once a Second World War. In what exactly am I mistaken? In Germany's philosophy? In France's Empire? In the power of Italian culture?
And I despised Clinton�s bombing as I will despise those of Bush.
The rest of the world is not obliged to follow the US. Certainly all countries are guilty of hypocrisy but the fact is that many people around the world simply do not agree with Bush. It is not just Europe - he is despised through pretty much all of Africa (although that doesn�t stop people demanding his aid, sometimes involving themselves in awkward tensions).
And again - Ivory Coast. Much US media (and those of other countries) concern themselves only with topics in which their country is directly involved. Don�t make the mistake of thinking that other things aren't happening in the world outside those stories.
[Edited by sasca] |
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| Riffhard |
I cut and pasted this from the Dushkin board. It is an actual document drawn up and signed by "New Europe" it states America's and Europes shared values. It could not be more plain and revealing as to what the vast majority of Europe feels about the mutual bond that ties our continets together. You will notice that France and Germany are conspicuosly absent.
Europe and America must stand united
Signed By: Jan 29, 2003
Jos� Mar�a Aznar, Spain
Jos� Manuel Dur�o Barroso, Portugal
Silvio Berlusconi, Italy
Tony Blair, United Kingdom
V�clav Havel, Czech Republic
Peter Medgyessy, Hungary
Leszek Miller, Poland
Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Denmark
THE real bond between the United States and Europe is the values we share: democracy, individual freedom, human rights and the Rule of Law. These values crossed the Atlantic with those who sailed from Europe to help create the USA. Today they are under greater threat than ever.
The attacks of 11 September showed just how far terrorists � the enemies of our common values � are prepared to go to destroy them. Those outrages were an attack on all of us. In standing firm in defence of these principles, the governments and people of the United States and Europe have amply demonstrated the strength of their convictions. Today more than ever, the transatlantic bond is a guarantee of our freedom.
We in Europe have a relationship with the United States which has stood the test of time. Thanks in large part to American bravery, generosity and far-sightedness, Europe was set free from the two forms of tyranny that devastated our continent in the 20th century: Nazism and Communism. Thanks, too, to the continued cooperation between Europe and the United States we have managed to guarantee peace and freedom on our continent. The transatlantic relationship must not become a casualty of the current Iraqi regime�s persistent attempts to threaten world security.
In today�s world, more than ever before, it is vital that we preserve that unity and cohesion. We know that success in the day-to-day battle against terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction demands unwavering determination and firm international cohesion on the part of all countries for whom freedom is precious.
The Iraqi regime and its weapons of mass destruction represent a clear threat to world security. This danger has been explicitly recognised by the United Nations. All of us are bound by Security Council Resolution 1441, which was adopted unanimously. We Europeans have since reiterated our backing for Resolution 1441, our wish to pursue the UN route and our support for the Security Council, at the Prague Nato Summit and the Copenhagen European Council.
In doing so, we sent a clear, firm and unequivocal message that we would rid the world of the danger posed by Saddam Hussein�s weapons of mass destruction. We must remain united in insisting that his regime is disarmed. The solidarity, cohesion and determination of the international community are our best hope of achieving this peacefully. Our strength lies in unity.
The combination of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism is a threat of incalculable consequences. It is one at which all of us should feel concerned. Resolution 1441 is Saddam Hussein�s last chance to disarm using peaceful means. The opportunity to avoid greater confrontation rests with him. Sadly this week the UN weapons inspectors have confirmed that his long-established pattern of deception, denial and non-compliance with UN Security Council resolutions is continuing.
Europe has no quarrel with the Iraqi people. Indeed, they are the first victims of Iraq�s current brutal regime. Our goal is to safeguard world peace and security by ensuring that this regime gives up its weapons of mass destruction. Our governments have a common responsibility to face this threat. Failure to do so would be nothing less than negligent to our own citizens and to the wider world.
The United Nations Charter charges the Security Council with the task of preserving international peace and security. To do so, the Security Council must maintain its credibility by ensuring full compliance with its resolutions. We cannot allow a dictator to systematically violate those Resolutions. If they are not complied with, the Security Council will lose its credibility and world peace will suffer as a result.
We are confident that the Security Council will face up to its responsibilities.
Jos� Mar�a Aznar, Spain
Jos� Manuel Dur�o Barroso, Portugal
Silvio Berlusconi, Italy
Tony Blair, United Kingdom
V�clav Havel, Czech Republic
Peter Medgyessy, Hungary
Leszek Miller, Poland
Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Denmark
____________________________________________________________
I think that this pretty much sums up why Saddam must go. He is a direct threat to global peace!
Riffhard
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| sasca |
Yes, that sums up the view of some, although I don't think the majority. But many disagree (in all countries, including the US), not out of cowardice but out of deep moral differences. |
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| sirmoonie |
Quite the letter.
Vaclav Havel is a great man and would not sign a document like that without careful deliberation of facts and consequences.
Surely Saddam can see the writing on the wall and will take his trillion dollar bank account, 10-15 of his best wives, a couple hundred crates of Baghweiser, his offer of asylum, and go bash it up on some island for the rest of his life. Hell, I'd develop my own nuclear weapons if I thought I could cinch a dealie like that! |
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| Dandelion* |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Surely Saddam can see the writing on the wall and will take his trillion dollar bank account, 10-15 of his best wives, a couple hundred crates of Baghweiser, his offer of asylum, and go bash it up on some island for the rest of his life.
Lets hope the rumours of him having delusions of biblical proportions are just that! |
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| glencar |
Sasca, grow up. You seem to still have an inability to understand WWII history. As for the Ivory Coast, what do you need to know? I read one of the world's best papers (for international coverage) on a daily basis. While the popular image of Americans is of people who are self-centered navel-gazers, that's only true of Californians. The rest of us give some considreation to other countries. We're just more than a little tired of the goofy Germans & the fussy French suddenly telling us to go slow in Iraq. As someone noted above, Vaclav Havel has come down on the side of the US. If you don't know who Havel is, do a Google search. And don't ever call anyone else a "fool" as it puts you in an untenable position. |
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| Highwire Rob |
The original offshoot thread was deleted (within an hour of my posting??), so for the sake of principle and free speech I wish to post my salute to the French again...
VIVE LA FRANCE!!
The French are cool in my book. And they have some of the best commandos and Special Forces. Considering the dawn of this new millennium has meant the preeminence of terror as the new global threat, we could use more forces like the French. One shining example firmly imprinted in my memory�and one that U.S. security specialists could have learned from�follows:
1994 � All 170 passengers and crew on board a hijacked Air France jet 8969 survived after French commandos stormed the plane at Marseilles airport, killing the four Islamic GIA terrorists who seized it in Algiers.
All 170 passengers survived! I recall feeling immensely proud that day, and I�m not even French.
What could U.S. security specialists learned way back '94?
Oh, only that the terrorists had planned to fill the airliner over-full with fuel and then ram in to the la Tour Eiffel (Eiffel Tower). One drawback for these terrorist... seems they had no flight training... hmmmmm. I'm no security expert but it seems the next logical step for future terror would be....ah, but this is just hindsight, right? |
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| glencar |
The French have done their bit but they've also held back way too much. As far as realizing what the terrorists might do in the future, it'd be nice to haave known prior to 9-11. |
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| egon |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
It could not be more plain and revealing as to what the vast majority of Europe feels about the mutual bond that ties our continets together. You will notice that France and Germany are conspicuosly absent.
for the record;
that's 8 leaders out of about 25 who signed the letter.
france and germany never got to see the letter.
glencar, out of interest; which paper do you read?
[Edited by egon] |
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| telecaster |
quote:
Highwire Rob wrote:
The original offshoot thread was deleted (within an hour of my posting??), so for the sake of principle and free speech I wish to post my salute to the French again...
VIVE LA FRANCE!!
The French are cool in my book
The French are cool in your book?
You need a new book. The reason the French won't back
the 20+ nations against Iraq is they will lose out on
the oil contracts they have and back debt Iraq owes them
now. I guess it is about oil, French oil and French money
The funny thing is they act as if they are still relevant
http://www.flashbunny.org/content/frenchmagazine.html
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| glencar |
Egon - NY Times |
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| Scot Rocks |
Blair might support going to war for oil and influence, however around 80% of his people are against it, including people from all walks of life. It doesn't matter what ideolology you follow, or what background you are, it is more than apparent that this is just plain wrong.
Mark |
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| justforyou |
I find it strange that there's a massive military buildup in the Gulf before any compelling evidence against Iraq exists. It doesn't seem fair at all. I mean, starting a war because of some inspectors access to paperwork or empty shells...c'mon!
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| Riffhard |
Here's an idea. Let's wait until Saddam inflicts more mass casualties,as if over five million weren't enough,then we can all get the UN to reopen the debate concerning his value to the world.
This mass murderer has had children beheaded in front of their parents because the parents showed dissent. He has sworn the distruction of the west. He is actively seeking WMD's. He has violated every UN charter that he has ever agreed to. Even when those very charters spelled out that his failure to comply would bring a military response. The UN and the left,on both sides of the Atlantic,have continued to debate how real a threat he truly is.
Face the facts here folks. If a war breaks out it won't be the fault of Bush or Blair,or for the matter over twenty other leaders of the world. No,it will be the direct response to Saddam's arogance and distain of the free world!
Many here act as if Bush has opened this can of worms. Nothing could be further from the truth. He is simply trying to close it once and for all!
A question for all you enlightened liberals. Why pass a UN charter spelling out possible military action then go to the trouble of a 16-0 security council vote supporting those very resolutions,and then sherk the responsibity of the UN's very reason for being?! Don't you think Saddam can see this waffleing? It only impowers and imboldens him!
The UN is like tits on a bull. Useless!
People on the left act as if this would be an immoral war with oil as the catalyst. On the contrary,this is a very moral cause with the sides of good and evil clearly defined. Talk to any Iraqi who has ever fled Iraq and ask them how moral Saddam is.
Riffhard |
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| jb |
I find it strange that a continent that has participated in and or ignored numerous genocides is lecturing us on the horror of war...it was the blood and guts of American GI's which allows your freedom to attack us today possible. |
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