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| telecaster |
Just wanted to be the 300th post.
STONES |
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| justforyou |
Assasins, bombs, sanctions... so Saddam's really been pissing everyone off the past 12 years after getting himself crushed in Kuwait. He's such a threat to the world that everyone and their cat has to pause while he's eliminated.
The only reason I can accept for removing Saddam, would be for the benefit of the Iraqi people. Other reasons are hypocritically applied to Saddam and not other violators. Hell, different rules are openly applied to different nations.
Non-Iraqi's are not afraid of Saddam, but of the fiery terrorist groups that are willing to sacrifice their lives. Is attacking Iraq gonna address this ? (there was an agreement a few pages back that 9-11 was the motivating factor for the war against Saddam, and not love for the Iraqi people)... |
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| Fiji Joe |
Just wanted to be the 302nd post... |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
justforyou wrote:
The only reason I can accept for removing Saddam, would be for the benefit of the Iraqi people. Other reasons are hypocritically applied to Saddam and not other violators. Hell, different rules are openly applied to different nations.
So justforyou,you have just proven my point. The UN resolutions are meaningless. The fact that there is solid irrefutable evidence that he has ties to terrorist organizations,the fact that he has violated every resolution,the fact that he is still trying to obtain WMDs is all meaningless huh?
Whatever we do lets not use the international law to remove someone who has such obvious contempt for the UN and the West. Let's continue to pretend that a despot who has pledged the death of the West and has already tried to have an American president killed and who could very easily hand over chemical or biological weapons to his terrorist buddies is not worth going to war over.
There is nothing hypocritical about trying to remove Saddam. He has had twelve years to obey the law and he has told everyone to fuck off all the while. You would have us hang in there until he obtains nukes?! We know he has been trying to do just that while he was supposed to disarming. Yeah your right,he's no threat.
The liberation of the Iraqi people is a very nobel cause.However,the security of the entire region is just as nobel and just. Not to mention the safty of the rest of the world.
Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past are bound to repeat them.
Riffhard |
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| gypsy |
Lady J, I couldn't agree with you more! I am so sick of sasca and his little faggoty posts for peace. Yes, I said 'faggot.'
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| gypsymofo60 |
quote:
sasca wrote:
Of course, it can also be argued that appeasement worked in the destruction of the Soviets. History teaches many lessons.
It should be pointed out that Blix is denying key elements of the Powell report - he says that the Iraqis did not know of the inspections much in advance and that there is no evidence of mobile laboratories. Members of the CIA and FBI also feel the government is exagerating the claims to make their case for war.
While Tony Blair insists on substantial AQ-Iraq links, his intelligence service is finding 'no current links' - that there has been contact but it foundered due to mutual dislike and mistrust.
Even if Saddam has those weapons, that does not make a case for war. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PACIFISM. Experts point out that if Saddam is anything, he is cautious. There is no reason to believe that he has changed. Why would he not seek nuclear weaponry? The US would if it were in that region. It is at least a matter of prestige - militarily powerful countries respect other militarily powerful countries.
[Edited by sasca]
This situation is beyond, he's got a big bat, so I'm allowed a big bat. If we'd allowed that playground mentality since the 1940s God knows where we'd be today? probably floating through space along with all the other space junk. America has behaved with a cool head with nukes since the cessation of WW2, look at Cuba!....The same can be said for Russia. Imagine if The Syrians, Egyptians, Iranians, Iraqis shall I go on? Look at the one-upmanship on The Asian sub-continent. There has gotta be a watchdog, and The UN are fucking bollocks as a watchdog, like guarding your BMW with a maltese terrier, America's a mastiff, we need a mastiff. |
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| gypsymofo60 |
quote:
sasca wrote:
It is interesting that someone like me, who simply dislikes war, is so much more objectionable to many of you than a bigot like jb, who calls for genocide. I knew a guy who's father was killed by black men, or so he claimed. Consequently he hated all 'kaffirs.' Is this acceptable to you? If not, then why so little anger with jb?
Sasca, I don't find you objectionable at all, that would be silly now wouldn't it? this is an internet site, but JB may, or may not have called for genocide, I haven't seen such a post, but his people actually were the victims of such. Now we have The Germans, who are apparently so mortified at having let that happen, that they are willing along with those convieiently forgetfull French to allow another genocidal maniac free reign....I mean! Do us a favour! |
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| gypsymofo60 |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Who the heck is asking you to kill anyone? As far as I know, you can simply stay at home and watch it on TV. You don't have to pull a trigger.
The most succinct comment in three pages of talk. My biggest problem on this whole thread is that it will be kids, kids who will have to do the killing, and the dying, kids who will be emotionally scarred for life if they do survive......Saddam?????????? Iraq???????? Arab terrorists??? Anyone who threatens the world with weapons of mass destruction?????????? Priorities people! Fuck Saddam! |
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| Pants Make the Man |
quote:
jb wrote:
You are French!!!!
"He" is either that or Muslim. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Here's how bad war can scar you.
My Grandpa Fred was in the Army during WW2. He fought in the Pacific against the Japanese. As long as I had known him, he NEVER talked about the war. The only things that I found out about was what my Gram would tell me. She showed me his Silver Star. It seems that my Grandpa was not only a good accountant, but he was a war hero as well.
Last year, he and I went to play golf together. I had mixed up a thermos of Manhattans(his fave). The course was crowded so we had to wait a lot(I hit the ball far.). I mentioned seeing a documentary on the History Channel about the war in the Pacific that I thought he might like. He said that he had seen it to...and then he started to cry. He told me that he was on Guadalcanal. I'd never known that. In the course of this show they showed footage from the 'Canal. Seems that he recognized some of the guys they showed in the stock footage. One guy in particular..Earl sombody. Grandpa told me that Earl was his buddy. Shared a foxhole. He told me about the night Earl died. It seems the Japanese were attacking again. My Grandpa's company was stretched real thin due to casulties. When they heard the Japanese coming, Earl jumped into Grandpa's foxhole so they could cover each other. After some probing of the lines by the Japanese, they launched their attack. Wave after wave of Japanese swarmed out of the jungle. Grandpa and Earl started shooting. The enemy fell, but kept coming closer. Every time they killed a foe, there were 2 more to take his place. They fired as fast as they could fire their M-1As. The enemy was so thick and close that they literally couldn't miss. Earl says to my Grandpa..."You chuck some pineapples(hand grenades) at 'em Fred, I'll keep up the fire." Gramp starts tossing grenades, but still the Japanese keep coming closer. They run out of grenades. As my Grandpa is getting his rifle loaded, one of the Japanese leaps toward their foxhole. Earl was firing in a different direction, and the Japanese soldier plunged a bayonet into Earl's neck. My Grandpa pulled his .45 and shot the Japanese guy in the head. Earl was dead. But Gramps couldn't do anything but keep shooting. The order came to fall back to their second defensive line. Gramps got out of his hole, pulled Earl out after him, and did a fireman's carry back to the secondary line. A fresh company had come up to man the line, and Granpa's line was sent to the rear to resupply and regroup. There were only 8 guys left out of 25 from his platoon. All but one was wounded. My Gramp was wounded twice that night. He was so scared that he didn't even know he'd been hit until they got to the secondary line. He thought the blood soaking his uniform was Earl's, not his own. The wound was not serious. A medic stitched him up, and Gramps went back into the fight...got wounded a second time, and won a Silver Star for grabbing a live Japanese grenade that landed in the company CP, and tossing it into a group of onrushing Japanese...killing them all, and saving the CP from being over run. He was wounded the second time shortly after that, during a counter charge to retake their original fighting line. This wound was more serious, and he was sent to a hospital in Australia. There he met a pretty American nurse...my Grandma. He was given a battlefield commission, a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and 2 Purple Hearts for his actions that night. But he told me that he would much rather still be able to talk to Earl.
Anyhow, this story was over 50 years old when he told me this story. But I could tell, to him, it was like it happened yesterday. Fred talks about the war pretty freely now. I think he knows he's getting old, and it makes him feel better to talk about all the stuff he kept locked up inside all those years.
We finished out the front nine, and decided to just go home and drink some more. I will never forget that day, and obviously, my Grandpa won't ever forget that night on the 'Canal. War wounds run real deep man.....real deep. |
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| gypsymofo60 |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Just wanted to be the 302nd post...
Is that your mummy? |
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| gypsymofo60 |
SS, that was a very moving story, and begs the question, the real question; do we all now just accept that life can be shitty, and just let crackpots like Hussien & Co. carry on so that The Earls of this world, and The Freds of this world have to keep cleaning up everybody elses shit?....I think some people, even people in high places forget the sacrifice that generation made. My English(Paternal) Grandfather was sunk by a U-boat in the North Sea, he survived, but the oil soaked burning corpses stayed with him forever. When he died in '87 we found his medals, he never said a dickie-bird about them. My Scottish(maternal)Grandfather worked the graveyard shift at Rolls Royce at Paisley in Glasgow churning out Spitfire engines to shoot down The Bosch. I think my time may have arrived. |
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| Maxlugar |
Nice post SS. I admire people like Earl and your Gramps like nothing else. I cry watching those shows and I don't know any of them. Moving stuff. They saved the world.
Now, to anyone who harps on this whole "well it's easy to be pro war when you're not doing the fighting" crap, I just want to remind you of something. Sasca made a sarcastic comment about me and others posting on a ship on the way to the gulf. And the fact that civilians could get hurt. Folks, this war and these times are different. These Islamic terrorists have now started a war where there is no difference between the military and the civilians. We are all in this. When the war starts in Iraq, they are coming for US back here in the USA. I have no illusions about it. I work in Manhattan and feel it every day. So don't give me this shit that we can be for this war because we are safely at home.
And I have not a care in the world for any of their civilians. You know damn well that our military will take every precaution to not kill innocents. You can't say that about the other side.
We are all in this one together people. So watch out.
The girl coming out of the elevator on the 90th fl in tower 1 when she was incinerated was a soldier.
The guy sitting down at his desk and just about to open his coffee when a slice of airplane wing cut his head off is a soldier.
The older guy that was just about to retire when some landing gear smashed his body like a grape was a soldier.
The girl who just called her husband to say she was pregnant and then an hour later jumps 100 floors to her death is a soldier.
And all the firemen and cops and Emergency workers....
All not only killed but TARGETED.
3,000 dead "soldiers" in the opening salvo of this war on our side and you think I care about their civilians? Nope.
Fire away George.
NOW!
Maxy
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| egon |
you've moved me.
really, you did!
tears... |
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| gypsy |
Thanks for sharing your story, SS. My dad was a sniper in Vietnam...he won't talk about it at all. My great-uncle was one of the soldiers who stormed the beaches at Normandy in WWII...he never talked about it.
I was born and raised near Ft. Leonard Wood...my entire family was/is military.
I knew too many people hurt in the attacks on 9/11. One of my best friends worked in the Pentagon...they only found her underneath the rubble because her sisters kept calling her cellphone...she was burned very badly, but she is alive.
sasca, nobody WANTS a war. We're all for peace. |
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| telecaster |
http://vampirebat.com/obeythefist/AC130_GunshipMed.wmv
WARNING: DO NOT OPEN THAT SITE IF YOU ARE SQUIMISH
Video of an AC-130 hitting a terrorist camp.(to say the least)
The point for the post is notice how the US does not
destroy the Masque. Even during war they respect others religion while our enemies could give a shit about ours |
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| Pants Make the Man |
I'm all for love, peace and soul. The best way to achieve that is to get this war over with. You see, we have no choice, as I stated to SS... the war is already on. Saddam know's that we know that he know's that we know that he was behind Sep 11. It's just that simple. I won't hear otherwise. So, no, I'm not a gay basher, but I would like to see sasca go to Iraq and offer himself up as a human sacrifice...err...shield, in the name of peace, as a show of solidarity with Saddam. |
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| Maxlugar |
er...sasca is a girl...so.... |
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| jb |
After we rout Saddam, we need to punish the arrogant French and ungrateful Germans. For my part, I shall never again visit those countries and may very well stop driving mercerdes benz. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
I hope you all don't mind...but I passed on some of your comments to my Granpa Fred via email. I just wanted to let him know that not everyone has forgotten what our Grandfathers and Fathers went through. That all true Americans(and even some non-Americans!) love Earl for what he did. I think it will make him feel good.
A man that wrestles ghosts every day of his life deserves at least that...don't you think?
And thanks Maxy, for giving me a different perspective. I had always considered the unfortunate souls in the WTC Towers as blindsided innocents. Wrong place, wrong time. And being in Emergency Services myself, I had always thought of those folks as just doing their jobs...trying to save lives. Victims of circumstance.
They were certainly more than just victims.
But soldiers? I don't know Max. Soldiers train to fight in combat. Soldiers wear uniforms. Soldiers try to fight back. Soldiers go into the valley of death willingly, face front. Those 3000+ had no idea that something so unthinkable was about to happen. They didn't, and couldn't fight back. Heroes...yes. Icons even. But I don't think that being mercilessly slaughtered while simply living your daily routine makes you a soldier. Not any more than the Brits who died in the rubble of the Blitz were soldiers. Or any of the civilians who died in the fires of Dresden or Tokyo.
I'll make one exception. Todd Beamer and the guys who helped him take down United 95. They fought back. They were soldiers. And of course, the people in the Pentagon. They died in uniform.
I don't mean to quibble with you on symantics Maxy. The people who died on 9/11...it's almost like they are the 51st star on our flag. They are the people that our soldiers will be fighting for. And that is just as important as actually wearing the uniform. It just isn't the same.
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| parmeda |
Whoa, Tele...
What a clip! |
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| jb |
"Lets Roll" |
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| nankerphelge |
Nice vid tele -- nothing like a wake-up call from the US eh? |
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| jb |
It wasn't particularly graphic. |
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| Maxlugar |
Essessy,
I meant they were soldiers in an unwitting way. As if it was forced upon them by people (animals really) who consider them fair game.
Certainly not in the literal sense.
We are all soldiers in this kind of war.
Keep your eyes open!
MACKY! |
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| Joey |
" Thanks for sharing your story, SS. My dad was a sniper in Vietnam...he won't talk about it at all. My great-uncle was one of the soldiers who stormed the beaches at ........................."
Personally , I come from a long lineage of ancestors who were very adept at avoiding military service at all cost ............our family tree is glued by the motto " Never Shed Blood for Strangers " !!!!!! and " Your Country Ain't your Blood " !!!!!
With that in mind , these current potential " National Wars of Liberation " are not very troublesome to your young Joey because he is Thirty Eight years old and is waaaaaaay to old for the draft . Plus , and I really really mean this , would any of you fine people risk losing your life or limbs so young Joey can go out and play at the bars every Friday Night ??????????????? didn't think so ?????????????
Remember Kiddies , Gen . Douglas McCarthur ( Sic ) said it best , " Never get caught in a land war in Asia --- there are just too damn many of them . "
-- Thank You
{{{{{{{{{{ JOEYKINS }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} |
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| Fiji Joe |
LOL..Reminds me a whole lot of when I was kid and would bomb anthills with melting plastic milk jugs |
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| jb |
Hey Fiji..thansk's for the "fuck-off" this morning...just like old times! |
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| Fiji Joe |
Yeah...I'm back baby! |
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| Joey |
Someone in the crowd to Pete Townshend at a WHO Concert : " Get on with it !!!!! "
Pete Townshend : " F##K OFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
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