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Topic: Stones need new Producer (although Don is Great) Return to archive Page: 1 2
02-06-04 04:04 AM
IanBillen
quote:
scratched wrote:
Why not stick with Don? He seems to be a good mediator between Mick and Keith, knows what he is doing and has produced good results. The Daniel Lanois suggestion above would be ideal for a Keith solo album - especially the ballads. That would be worth hearing.


Your right about Don. He mediates between Keith and Mick so nicely. And he has produced very good results. I just think a carefully selected new producer would bring a freshness to it a little more. New ideas. A different dude brings in a different "vibe" in the studio there is no doubt. No matter how much a producer may try and stay out of the direct path of things. I think it would bring the boys up a notch at this point and may spark something different in them....if again the producer was carefully selected and he carefully selected how things were to go without being to procedure like. If I had my total dream gig:
I would have all band members in the studio on and off during the first part of the "Mick-Keith" writing process.
No more Mick and Keith in Barbadoes for 6 weeks to write songs. It would be all the Stones in there tinkering around in a secluded enviorment somewhere. The Stones don't crowd each-other (even though Charlie made reference that Woody can get in the way at times on four flicks). I would have them all working in there and would let Keith and Mick do the writing at night if it called for it. I would want a more group oriented beginning as we'll as throughout. Sice Steel Wheels it has always been the Mick-Keith 6 week writing sessions in Barbadoes befre the band comes into play. I would want it in much the fashion "Ladies and Gentlemen The Rolling Stones" shows them working on Sympathy for the Devil. Just some thoughts....but you know....Who the heck am I lol Just dreaming. But you should be allowed to dream. It keeps you going.
Ian
02-06-04 04:18 AM
scratched
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
Just dreaming. But you should be allowed to dream. It keeps you going.



It does indeed! I agree about Barbados - too luxurious for a songwriting session. The new producer, whoever he is, should force Mick and Keith into moving back to their Edith Grove flat while making the album. It would have to be prepared beforehand though - three legged chairs and snot on the ceiling. Give them a reminder of the good old days! They'll be taping their pants up and writing classics in no time!
02-06-04 12:12 PM
Nasty Habits I definitely have the same copy of Voodoo Lounge that Mathijs has, and I HATE the drum sound on "I Go Wild". I do not find the sound on VL warm - I find it imitation warm -- the difference between cooking something in an oven and heating it up in a microwave.

No more Don Was. Time to move on. He's so "90s Stones".

But keep Daniel Lanois the f*ck away from the Rolling Stones.

Good thread, Ian. Enjoying your responses and everybody's thoguhts.
02-06-04 12:38 PM
gotdablouse Voodoo Lounge sounds like crap and there's a good reason for that as Mick explained in his superb 1995 interview in RS, Don Was and his gang tried to make is sound like the 70s, something they failed to achieve.

I think all the music (as opposed to the myth) fans here will agree that the best thing this side of "Some Girls" (Tattoo You doesn't count) to come out from a Stone is "Wandering Spirit", it has such a superb sound. It could have used Keith's input of course. So my vote goes to Rick Rubin and if he's not available, Lanois (see Oh Mercy).

Not only has the sound been uninspired, but he hasn't gotten much good music out of then either, as evidenced by the great groove stuff that stayed in the can from the VL sessions because he pretty much vetoed it. On B2B he had much less of an influence and it made for a much more interesting record. Just look at him lying sitting on the floor during the Paris 2002 sessions shows how much they need him!

Now what's the story about February to June sessions, pure speculation?
02-06-04 06:31 PM
Snappy McJack You may have a point. Don Was is probably more of a friend than a leader.
02-07-04 12:33 AM
IanBillen
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Voodoo Lounge sounds like crap and there's a good reason for that as Mick explained in his superb 1995 interview in RS, Don Was and his gang tried to make is sound like the 70s, something they failed to achieve.

I think all the music (as opposed to the myth) fans here will agree that the best thing this side of "Some Girls" (Tattoo You doesn't count) to come out from a Stone is "Wandering Spirit", it has such a superb sound. It could have used Keith's input of course. So my vote goes to Rick Rubin and if he's not available, Lanois (see Oh Mercy).

Not only has the sound been uninspired, but he hasn't gotten much good music out of then either, as evidenced by the great groove stuff that stayed in the can from the VL sessions because he pretty much vetoed it. On B2B he had much less of an influence and it made for a much more interesting record. Just look at him lying sitting on the floor during the Paris 2002 sessions shows how much they need him!

Now what's the story about February to June sessions, pure speculation?

Oh yes, Pure speculation on the Feb-June thing. That's just the way I would like to see things. Who knows how anything will really happen.
Ian
02-07-04 12:37 AM
IanBillen
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
I definitely have the same copy of Voodoo Lounge that Mathijs has, and I HATE the drum sound on "I Go Wild". I do not find the sound on VL warm - I find it imitation warm -- the difference between cooking something in an oven and heating it up in a microwave.

No more Don Was. Time to move on. He's so "90s Stones".

But keep Daniel Lanois the f*ck away from the Rolling Stones.

Good thread, Ian. Enjoying your responses and everybody's thoguhts.


I agree that Don Was is so 90's Stones.
I really love Voodoo. I was so impressed when it came out. You don't care for it but that is why variety is the spice of life. I see your Dirty Work Pic. I know the bad rap on Dirty Work but I think it deserves more credit than it is given. How do you rate Dirty work?
Ian
02-07-04 12:43 AM
IanBillen
quote:
Snappy McJack wrote:
You may have a point. Don Was is probably more of a friend than a leader.


That's a interesting way of looking at it.
Don is a friend and a fan to the Stones.
Was is not a Leader as much as he is a vehicle.
He sees where you want to go and can take you there.
Keith appreciates him more than the average Producer because he is also a good musician as we'll as a
Producer.
Maybe we don't totally agree on everything but
I think you're thoughts are an interesting
way of looking at it.
Ian
02-07-04 12:52 AM
IanBillen
quote:
scratched wrote:


It does indeed! I agree about Barbados - too luxurious for a songwriting session. The new producer, whoever he is, should force Mick and Keith into moving back to their Edith Grove flat while making the album. It would have to be prepared beforehand though - three legged chairs and snot on the ceiling. Give them a reminder of the good old days! They'll be taping their pants up and writing classics in no time!


Yeah. Barbados is like too nice. Get them some place ele's.
Ian
02-07-04 06:24 AM
IanBillen
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
"Voodoo Lounge sounds like crap and there's a good reason for that as Mick explained in his superb 1995 interview in RS, Don Was and his gang tried to make is sound like the 70s, something they failed to achieve."

Come on now. we all know it doesn't sound like crap.
Only the best boards, recorders, and Mic's were used.
Not to mention a world class sound team including
Don Was and Ed Cherney. Geez you may not like the
album but it doesn't sound like they recorded it on
a cassette player in my basement.

I think all the music (as opposed to the myth) fans here will agree that the best thing this side of "Some Girls" (Tattoo You doesn't count) to come out from a Stone is "Wandering Spirit", it has such a superb sound. It could have used Keith's input of course. So my vote goes to Rick Rubin and if he's not available, Lanois (see Oh Mercy).

Yes Wandering spirit sounds good. So does Bridges-Voodoo.
You may not like the albums but they are both professionally done to the hilt....even when it is supposed to sound sloppy like the flicking of Keiths Pick on the strings on Low Down.

"Not only has the sound been uninspired, but he hasn't gotten much good music out of then either, as evidenced by the great groove stuff that stayed in the can from the VL sessions because he pretty much vetoed it. On B2B he had much less of an influence and it made for a much more interesting record. Just look at him lying sitting on the floor during the Paris 2002 sessions shows how much they need him!"
Where do you want Don Was to be? Sitting on Charlies lap eating pop corn. He stays clear
when he has to but I am sure he was working with Cherney
to get the sound they wanted.
Now I know I said I didn't want Don Was on board this time but by no means is the guy a horrible producer who is still wet behind his ears. The guy knows what he's doing. Voodoo Lounge did get a grammy. And he also got Producer of the year. Although those awards don't mean shit it isn't like it was Tommy Lees album or menudo would of took it either.

Ian

Now what's the story about February to June sessions, pure speculation?

02-07-04 09:09 AM
gotdablouse Ouch on the quoting ;-)

You missed the most interesting question, what's the deal with these February to May sessions, speculation on your part, do you know something?

I didn't meant that VL sounded like crap litteraly, sure the sound is professional, what I meant is that it's dull and unremarkable, unlike Wandering Spirit that has a lot more life and warmth to it (listen to Mick licking his fingers in Sweet thing). B2B was a marked improvement over VL, as you note for Low Down for istance. It's got an edge to it.
02-07-04 02:36 PM
IanBillen
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Ouch on the quoting ;-)

You missed the most interesting question, what's the deal with these February to May sessions, speculation on your part, do you know something?

I didn't meant that VL sounded like crap litteraly, sure the sound is professional, what I meant is that it's dull and unremarkable, unlike Wandering Spirit that has a lot more life and warmth to it (listen to Mick licking his fingers in Sweet thing). B2B was a marked improvement over VL, as you note for Low Down for istance. It's got an edge to it.


No sir. No evidence of any recording dates set.
The Febuary-June thing was just what I wish. I have
seen no dates or official plans of anything. I really wish I could tell you different but I would be lying. However, from my own tuition I can speculate that infact
there will be an album out this year. Because of ther4e quotes-
1.Keith Lately (reffering to the recordings on the Licks tour)="Maybe a great Rolling stones album will come out of it who knows":If there is good stuff in there Mr. Richards wouldn't be so lacadaisical to further it. We all know him.
2. Charlie Lately:Will not start any new projects on his own because he is too busy with The Rolling Stones(...this was we'll after Licks had ended.) Like say a month ago.
3. Mick promised to record directly after the Licks tour a few years ago (I know alot can change in 2 years but I don't think he would make such promises these days without creating a tiff with Keith. In the 80's he might of but now I think he tries to stick to his word with Keith.)
4. Ronnie said they have alot of new material:Reffering to Paris sessions(we'll we only seen 4 tracks so there maybe alot of unfinished business with those sessions as we'll)
5. Mick says Tours will get closer together now (they won't attempt to tour without an album this time)
6. Keith said a few weeks ago that they will "Keep things Rolling" instead of completely packing up shop and returning way down the road.
7. IORR which is a pretty reliable site says Keith will wait until the winter to return to the north at which time he will write songs with Mick. (iorr is mostly reliable and I like both this site and IORR)
So you know alot of comments lead me to believe work on a new album is coming real soon. However I must say I have no idea exactly when. My guess is a Fall album.
-and the Feb-June thing was just the way I want it-
I thought I heard Mick licking something in Sweet Thing.
-wandering spirit is a very good album indeed- My fav by Mick solo.
Good thoughts
Ian
02-07-04 04:43 PM
Nasty Habits Ian, I simply LOVE Dirty Work.
02-07-04 05:25 PM
gotdablouse Ian, thanks for posting your "reasons", they make sense, but we'll have to wait. Don't remember reading about that Charlie quote?

The negatives:
- Keith said in a lenghty interview (Uncut?) that there were no plans for a new album or new material but that they wanted to keep the option open
- The Paris 2002 sessions were hyped at the time, especially by Keith, but it's unlikely there's a lot of good stuff available, check out the 2 FF "jams" that go nowhere at all. Three of the Licks songs came from Mick's solo sessions (pre-production by Matt Clifford) so other than being recorded by the band in Paris, they aren't really a group effort. Same goes for Keit's LMT most likely
- In late 1996, Ron said that Mick had told him over dinner that going forward they would put out an album every 18 months, because clearly they didn't have too many years ahead of them...it's been 7 years now since they recorded B2B in Los Angeles.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think there's too much "easy money" and instant gratification in tours for them to go through the painful process of creating a new album, at least for now. That might happen if they can't fill the stadiums and arenas anymore, but that's unlikely...if it's the case, they might well give up completely :-(
02-07-04 08:29 PM
IanBillen
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Ian, thanks for posting your "reasons", they make sense, but we'll have to wait. Don't remember reading about that Charlie quote?

The negatives:
- Keith said in a lenghty interview (Uncut?) that there were no plans for a new album or new material but that they wanted to keep the option open
- The Paris 2002 sessions were hyped at the time, especially by Keith, but it's unlikely there's a lot of good stuff available, check out the 2 FF "jams" that go nowhere at all. Three of the Licks songs came from Mick's solo sessions (pre-production by Matt Clifford) so other than being recorded by the band in Paris, they aren't really a group effort. Same goes for Keit's LMT most likely
- In late 1996, Ron said that Mick had told him over dinner that going forward they would put out an album every 18 months, because clearly they didn't have too many years ahead of them...it's been 7 years now since they recorded B2B in Los Angeles.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think there's too much "easy money" and instant gratification in tours for them to go through the painful process of creating a new album, at least for now. That might happen if they can't fill the stadiums and arenas anymore, but that's unlikely...if it's the case, they might well give up completely :-(



They will definately put out a new album if they tour again. Mick wouldn't have it any other way. As for Paris sessions...they probably have some good starts on things.
I am not sure "Sympathy for the Devil II is in there but a lick here and there is all you need to spark something with Mick and Keith. The Stones won't tour on simply their name alone with no new release twice in a row. It hasn't happend in 40 years and it isn't going to happen now. They will be into doing something new I am sure of it. I can't see the Stones touring over and over solely based on their past with no new product to show. Thats not their style. Never was. Also it has been 7 long years since a totally new stones album was released. I don't think they will make it 8. They will put one out this year.
Ian
02-08-04 04:45 AM
gotdablouse If we had had this discussion in 1996, I would have been 100% with you on this, the problem is that in the meantime they've toured twice with no new material, in 1999 (I know there was the NS thingy) and for Licks.

Something "snapped" in 1998 when they cancelled the UK leg for tax reasons. Made sense at the time to say they would come back in 1999, but then someone in their camp came out with the bright adea of adding an "Arena Tour" in America, which was a treat to the fans (the two San Jose shows in April 1999 were marvellous, especially MR on the B-Stage, man!), but that also showed them they could tour without new material and that 90% of their audience didn't give a s*** anyway, the remaining 10% wanting new material were just happy enough to see them on stage especially in an Arena setting. Same thing for Licks....They can easily get away with a new tour without a new album from a "business" standpoint, with thousands of people having more to benefit from a tour than from a new album. It's going to require a lot of will from them, going against the tide if you will.

Don't discount the negatives I listed, especially the Keith "no plans for new material" interview. Don't discount the "pain" of going through the process of creating a new album either. The B2B experience wasn't particularly pleasant...
02-08-04 11:02 AM
keith_tif they could work with Steeve Albini, it's a producer who can find a new sound more wild and more than Don Was's sound.
02-08-04 02:01 PM
IanBillen
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
If we had had this discussion in 1996, I would have been 100% with you on this, the problem is that in the meantime they've toured twice with no new material, in 1999 (I know there was the NS thingy) and for Licks.

Something "snapped" in 1998 when they cancelled the UK leg for tax reasons. Made sense at the time to say they would come back in 1999, but then someone in their camp came out with the bright adea of adding an "Arena Tour" in America, which was a treat to the fans (the two San Jose shows in April 1999 were marvellous, especially MR on the B-Stage, man!), but that also showed them they could tour without new material and that 90% of their audience didn't give a s*** anyway, the remaining 10% wanting new material were just happy enough to see them on stage especially in an Arena setting. Same thing for Licks....They can easily get away with a new tour without a new album from a "business" standpoint, with thousands of people having more to benefit from a tour than from a new album. It's going to require a lot of will from them, going against the tide if you will.

Don't discount the negatives I listed, especially the Keith "no plans for new material" interview. Don't discount the "pain" of going through the process of creating a new album either. The B2B experience wasn't particularly pleasant...

All good points but I always kinda counted No Security as
part of the B2B continuation. I think Keith is BSing.
I understand it takes alot of will and want to do a studio album but I don't think they want to go on touring as a pure Nostalgia act either. It is either one way or the other this time. I sincerely hope for a new album this year.
All good Stuff.
Ian

02-08-04 02:28 PM
Snappy McJack Did you CLEARLY read the Uncut issue? I don't think you did!

They DO NOT want to record an album; they feel like they HAVE to. Have you ever HAD to do something, but didn't feel like doing it? Well, this is the case with them.

In the interview, Mick admits that he hates the process and Keith basically defended not recording or releasing albums because "they are carrying a whole catalogue of work".

They have no inspiration to do it anymore. They just want to make as much money as they can now because they probably have only two good tours left in them. They will not take time to go in the studio for a year or two to make a great album; they would rather hit the road.

The best bet for them, if they do not want to be in the studio for a long time, is to take songs out of the "can" and polish them up for a studio recording like they did on TY. If anything, I bet that those 20 extra tracks they had in Paris were songs from the "can". Now is high time to get those out.
02-08-04 03:47 PM
LuckyWithTheLadies Should they really go to the trouble of recording a new album that will be ignored by the music industry no matter how good it is? I know nothing about producing music, but it seems from interviews with Keith that all the new stuff on 4 Licks was Mick's solo outtakes. And I would suspect that that is the case with pretty much every thing since Dirty Work except for the songs Keith sings. I think it is pretty obvious that Mick is saving his best material for his solo efforts and giving the Stones his outtakes. B2B made it pretty clear that there is little collaberation between them in the studio. Therefore given the facts that a) a new album will be largely ignored b) Mick has diluted the Rolling Stone's product c) they are both too full of themselves to work together, maybe they maybe should just tour on nostalgia. It is some pretty good nostalgia. Does anyone here really honestly think that the Rolling Stones can have another hit record? new producer or not?
02-08-04 06:44 PM
Nasty Habits
quote:
keith_tif wrote:
they could work with Steeve Albini, it's a producer who can find a new sound more wild and more than Don Was's sound.



LOL!

That'll be the day . . . that I die!
02-09-04 04:02 AM
scratched
quote:
LuckyWithTheLadies wrote:
Does anyone here really honestly think that the Rolling Stones can have another hit record? new producer or not?



I think they should down-scale the whole operation including playing live. This would mean less pressure to produce a 'hit' record that would compete with the current 'pop' artists. Why not try and make a record for themselves that they and the more discerning music fan would be happy with, like Bob Dylan has been doing recently? That would take them out of the 'rat race' and could possibly be more enjoyable for them to make. If they're gonna keep playing - which they will either way - they might aswell do it for the love of it instead of for the cash - which they don't need.
02-09-04 04:13 AM
IanBillen
quote:
Snappy McJack wrote:
Did you CLEARLY read the Uncut issue? I don't think you did!

They DO NOT want to record an album; they feel like they HAVE to. Have you ever HAD to do something, but didn't feel like doing it? Well, this is the case with them.

In the interview, Mick admits that he hates the process and Keith basically defended not recording or releasing albums because "they are carrying a whole catalogue of work".

They have no inspiration to do it anymore. They just want to make as much money as they can now because they probably have only two good tours left in them. They will not take time to go in the studio for a year or two to make a great album; they would rather hit the road.

The best bet for them, if they do not want to be in the studio for a long time, is to take songs out of the "can" and polish them up for a studio recording like they did on TY. If anything, I bet that those 20 extra tracks they had in Paris were songs from the "can". Now is high time to get those out.\

No I didn't read the whole thing. I definately did see what Keith said about them recording on the Licks tour in Hotel rooms and other places and said "Maybe a great Rolling Stones album will come out of it who knows". That I am sure of without a doubt. And there was no doubt he was talking about the Licks tour in refference to recording lately on the road. .....However I didn't have time to read everything in the Mag. I was at the book store and had to run. I went back to look for it a week or so later and they were gone...Fuck.
Anyway I think the Stones are just jiving. I really think if they tour again they will do a new studio album to boot.
But I do take into consideration what you say.
Thanks for the input
Ian


02-09-04 07:21 AM
bez85 If you go by the quality of songs on Mick's last solo record and the four new tracks on Forty Licks, maybe it's best they don't embarrass themselves anymore..
02-09-04 10:40 AM
gotdablouse Most of the songs on Goddess were pretty good, at least as good as anything they've done this side of "Some Girls", but they were let down by a "super-trendy" production. Had it been recorded by the Stones with Rick Rubin in the booth it would certainly have been heralded as a return to form.
02-09-04 06:20 PM
sandrew I'm surprised by how little Mick trusts his own instincts as a producer. He's always after a silver bullet; someone to make him sound fresh and up-to-date.

We all like "Wandering Spirit," but remember the context. Grunge was the thing then. Mick, ever the chameleon, wanted a raw production only inasmuch as that was what younger bands like Pearl Jam were doing in the early-'90s.

That's why, four years later, he could find himself emptying the Dust Brothers' bong and letting them ruin a perfectly fine song like "Might As Well Get Juiced." I don't know about you guys, but I cringe — I feel physical embarrassment — when I hear the big electronic fizz at the beginning and middle of that song. A terrible, and terribly contrived ambience.

Working with Wycleaf; trying to do house music on the title track of "Goddess"; sucking up to Marti Fredericksen because he was the guy behind some of Aerosmith's McBallads — this all smacks of desperation in Mick. And he doesn't wear it well at all. It's obvious to anyone but the most blindly forgiving of hardcore fans.

I'm sure he's aware, but doesn't realize the irony, that Norah Jones's debut album sold 17 million worldwide. And there ain't nothing contemporary about Arif Mardin's production. If Mick had listened to "Come Away With Me" before it got famous, he probably would've dismissed as hopelessly retro.

Maybe so. But I'd take that over Mick's hopeless attempts at being cutting-edge any day of the week.

02-09-04 10:13 PM
glencar Love "Might As Well Get Juiced" and feel okay about most of "Goddess" except for the Wyclef song.
02-09-04 10:14 PM
glencar When will Phil Spector be available?
02-10-04 11:53 PM
IanBillen
quote:
sandrew wrote:
I'm surprised by how little Mick trusts his own instincts as a producer. He's always after a silver bullet; someone to make him sound fresh and up-to-date.

We all like "Wandering Spirit," but remember the context. Grunge was the thing then. Mick, ever the chameleon, wanted a raw production only inasmuch as that was what younger bands like Pearl Jam were doing in the early-'90s.

That's why, four years later, he could find himself emptying the Dust Brothers' bong and letting them ruin a perfectly fine song like "Might As Well Get Juiced." I don't know about you guys, but I cringe — I feel physical embarrassment — when I hear the big electronic fizz at the beginning and middle of that song. A terrible, and terribly contrived ambience.

Working with Wycleaf; trying to do house music on the title track of "Goddess"; sucking up to Marti Fredericksen because he was the guy behind some of Aerosmith's McBallads — this all smacks of desperation in Mick. And he doesn't wear it well at all. It's obvious to anyone but the most blindly forgiving of hardcore fans.

I'm sure he's aware, but doesn't realize the irony, that Norah Jones's debut album sold 17 million worldwide. And there ain't nothing contemporary about Arif Mardin's production. If Mick had listened to "Come Away With Me" before it got famous, he probably would've dismissed as hopelessly retro.

Maybe so. But I'd take that over Mick's hopeless attempts at being cutting-edge any day of the week.

I thougt "Might as Well get Juiced" was really neat except for the OverBlown Keyboard syths. I think they could of still been used but just not so cheezily or in your face. Otherwise I thought it was a cool change and new direction The Stones took. Goddess sounded too much like the entire thing was done on a Pro-Tools rig to me. I kinda like "Hide away".
Wandering Spirit was much better in my eyes except for that silly English-Irish folk number. I think they could of left that one out.
I think Mick may try and get a little too different as a Producer or too trendy these days as a Producer for a Stones album. Keith would stick to the core music that made them but I think Mick would push things too far.
a Producer nowadays acts as an in-between for them.
We need a Hot, Mean album from them again. Something that has great grity rockers, a few great ballads, and a few nifty tunes that are different. Something kinda like Dirty work rockers meet Voodoo Lounge feeling and soul.....with some new tricky numbers to boot. I know it is an opposite mix but thats what they need right now in my eyes.
And let them have a radio single or two in the album.
Why not. I would love to see a few attempts to try and take a top ten position. And one thing I think they could stop is the end of album Keith ballad. Have Keith in like one good memorable tune that isn't as slow as the last say 3 albums. That would satisfy me. Who knows. I know it youre thinking....OK WHAT ELES DO YOU WANT IAN? HOW BOUT ANOTHER HIT SINGLE LIKE SATISFACTION AND SOME ROYALTIES SENT YOUR WAY...AND WHY NOT INCLUDE LIKE 4 OR 5 MORE ALBUMS YOU WANT IT TO SOUND LIKE...lol But you know it's how I feel.
Ian

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