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| IanBillen |
Let me start by saying this:
"Don Was" is my favorite producer in music. He adds such a warm, thick, weighty feel to songs and he knows exactly where the artist wants to go and he gets them there all while making a totaly professional sounding album yet
it is never really over-produced or too glossy. He is my very favorite and is one of my idols. (God I hope he doesn't get word on what I think is best for The Rolling Stones musical direction next....lol)
However,
I feel the Stones have did their thing with Don Was.
4 projects total: 1. Voodoo
2. Stripped
3. Bridges
4. New stuff on 40 Licks
I feel he did a better job with The Stones than anyone in the past 20 years as a co-producer working right along with the "Glimmer Twins" (Mick & Keith)and I am sure he had more than 50% of the production responsibility in the studio with them many a time but .... Let's not get into a formula here. working on 4 Rolling stones projects is plenty. 3 would of been fine. after that things get a little too "formulatic". It is kinda like you would read in Rolling stone Magazine :Rolling Stones in the studio
then you read with Producer Don Was
and you guest it Engineer Ed Cherney
it is kinda like.... Ok Ok lets get some new people in too change things up and do it differently this time for crying out loud. They need a new producer or two to add a new zing to them....and maybe even change it up a bit.
I think it is kinda repetative to keep any producer, not just Don Was and engineer Ed Cherney, but any for 5 straight projects. I know Don Was and Cherney did totally fantastic with the Stones and they are as good as it gets in the Industry but I think it is time for a breath of fresh air. No matter how good those two are.
And for the "if it aint broke don't fix it" people out there....we'll Although I don't think doing it again for 5 straight with the same group would break anything I just think some new objectives and some new mind sets are needed. I think a total Don Was/Ed Cherney thing again makes things too....Here we go again. Once was fantastic, Twice was Great, Thrree times is questionalble with the same dudes...but 4 or 5 times is too much in my opinion. Time to change the line-up to get some different ideas, different sounding tunes, and to keep it fresh not done to death.
Any thoughts people,
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| mac_daddy |
welcome, Ian...
where do I know you from..? |
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| Mathijs |
Don Was is responsible for the worst drum sound ever (the complete Voodoo Lounge album). I really think he is the worst producer the Stones ever had. The best in my opinion is and will always be Chris Kimsey, but this is from a musicians point of view. Kimsey managed to get the best drum sound ever, and even on bad sounding bootlegs of the 1977 studio sessions you still hear this beautiful crack of Charlie's snare. The direct-in-your-face guitars of Some Girls, Tattoo You and Undercover are all by Kimsey. Don Was tries to make the music airy and warm (thus very retro) but than it just has no impact.
Mathijs |
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| mac_daddy |
Jimmy Miller is widely recognized in the industry as being able to mic the drums, and get a better drum sound, than anybody, ever...
not knocking ck, but those are the facts...
[Edited by mac_daddy] |
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| Zeeta |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
you still hear this beautiful crack of Charlie's snare. The direct-in-your-face guitars of Some Girls, Tattoo You and Undercover are all by Kimsey.
Mathijs
yeah! The sound of Charlie's drums on Some Girls is awe inspiring! Especially When the Whip Comes Down and Respectable. |
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| L&A |
What about Rik Rubin... ? |
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| Jumacfly |
Good point LA!! i was thinking about him !! |
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| scratched |
And George Drakoulias. Yep, him and Rubin are my personal favourites. AMAZING drum and guitar sounds and 'awe-inspiring' mixing too. |
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| quackenbush |
The question is: Who would you like to produce the next Stones album.? |
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| Zeeta |
Ethan Johns son of Glyn Johns would be wicked. I have stated this previously.
He recently produced Kings of Leon's album which is minty fresh - Ethan would jump at the chance... |
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| Nasty Habits |
Considering that they'd never use someone like Jim Dickinson (my first choice) or a nice sweet analog-based studio like the Sound of Music in Richmond, I think that Rick Ruben is a pretty good choice. |
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| Mathijs |
mac daddy, I did say "in my opinion", it is my preference. Of course there is no argument on what Miller has done for the Stones and how good a producer he is, but Miller as the producer, not so much the engineer. Miller was more the man with the ideas, and not so much the man of the sound. The drum sound of Exile for example is Andy John's work, not so much Miller's.
Mathijs |
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| marko |
Just Glimmer Twins themselves,and get back the Rolling Stones records. |
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| sandrew |
I've always thought Charlie's snare had the most crack-and-pop on, funnily enough, "Steel Wheels" and the '89-90 tour. "Almost Hear You Sigh," "Terrifying," "Hearts for Sale" -- Charlie could be in the room with you when those songs are playing (not that they're the greatest songs, mind you).
Listen to it now -- on the new tracks on Forty Licks and the tour. It sounds like a piece of cardboard. Maybe he hasn't changed the head in 15 years.
Mathijs, I bet you'd agree, even as a guitar player, that the tone of the snare drum is the most important thing on a recording. Engineer-wise, it's what separates the men from the boys. |
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| Nasty Habits |
quote:
marko wrote:
Just Glimmer Twins themselves,and get back the Rolling Stones records.
That would mean that they wouldn't blow up at each other and go do two entirely different recording sessions. From what I can see from my far far distance of the Jagger/Richards relationship, that's not gonna happen. Unfortunately I think at this point they are no longer completely sympathetic as collaborators nor do I feel they have the flawless and fearless creative instincts necessary to produce their own records. They NEED a producer to help them bring out what is naturally inside them. I don't think that they can make a "real" Rolling Stones record on their own anymore. Unfortunately.
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| IanBillen |
quote:
mac_daddy wrote:
welcome, Ian...
where do I know you from..?
Thank you for the welcome,
I posted here alot throughout the past 4 years but just on and off. I got my cable connection going again and just wanted to say hi. Hi. I'm a biggy Stones fan like you folk.
I'll post later on after work. Gotta fly now.
Thanks again
Ian |
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| glencar |
What are the Dust Brothers up to? |
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| Some Guy |
An album like Outcast did, Mick sings one and Keith the other and its nominated for a grammy.
OOPS! wrong thread.
[Edited by Some Guy] |
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| Gazza |
I'd like to see them work with Rick Rubin or, preferably, Daniel Lanois.
with Bob Clearmountain mixing the results.... |
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| Soldatti |
If Mick alone did "Wandering Spirit", imagine Mick, Keith & Rick Rubin together...
[Edited by Soldatti] |
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| IanBillen |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
Don Was is responsible for the worst drum sound ever (the complete Voodoo Lounge album). I really think he is the worst producer the Stones ever had. The best in my opinion is and will always be Chris Kimsey, but this is from a musicians point of view. Kimsey managed to get the best drum sound ever, and even on bad sounding bootlegs of the 1977 studio sessions you still hear this beautiful crack of Charlie's snare. The direct-in-your-face guitars of Some Girls, Tattoo You and Undercover are all by Kimsey. Don Was tries to make the music airy and warm (thus very retro) but than it just has no impact.
Mathijs
"Don Was is responsible for the worst drum sound ever (the complete Voodoo Lounge album). "
-So your saying that the drums on "I go wild"/"You got me rocking"/"Through and Through" are the worst you have ever heard Charlie Watts? Are we talking about the same Voodoo Lounge album here???
Ian |
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| IanBillen |
quote:
quackenbush wrote:
The question is: Who would you like to produce the next Stones album.?
Very good question- I am stumped. I am sure Virgin
and The Stones/The Stones managment have someone in mind or are making a deal with them as we speak. And those two
groups are pretty good decision makers...
I think if they start recording in late Febuary till mid June.
They could have an album out by late summer or early fall. summer. after the Mixing, Mastering, Art work and a economical release date gets set.
Ian
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| IanBillen |
quote:
sandrew wrote:
I've always thought Charlie's snare had the most crack-and-pop on, funnily enough, "Steel Wheels" and the '89-90 tour. "Almost Hear You Sigh," "Terrifying," "Hearts for Sale" -- Charlie could be in the room with you when those songs are playing (not that they're the greatest songs, mind you).
Listen to it now -- on the new tracks on Forty Licks and the tour. It sounds like a piece of cardboard. Maybe he hasn't changed the head in 15 years.
Mathijs, I bet you'd agree, even as a guitar player, that the tone of the snare drum is the most important thing on a recording. Engineer-wise, it's what separates the men from the boys.
The snare and all drums are key. A sloppy guitar sound may slide on by or get masked by another guitar but drums have nothing to cover them. If a drum sound is weak or sub-par it really imposes to the entire track as being weak where as other instruments may slide by as passable.
Drums are the hardest to get just as you want them to sound.
Lots of tweaking and adjustments. Figuring the right kind of drum sound for a recording is easier than actually obtaining it.
Ian
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| IanBillen |
quote:
glencar wrote:
What are the Dust Brothers up to?
Just more Dust. |
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| stonedatbirth666 |
"Stonedatbirth666"????????????? |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]sandrew wrote:
I've always thought Charlie's snare had the most crack-and-pop on, funnily enough, "Steel Wheels" and the '89-90 tour. "Almost Hear You Sigh," "Terrifying," "Hearts for Sale" -- Charlie could be in the room with you when those songs are playing (not that they're the greatest songs, mind you).
Listen to it now -- on the new tracks on Forty Licks and the tour. It sounds like a piece of cardboard. Maybe he hasn't changed the head in 15 years.
I think we needed a change from the Tattoo You/Steel Wheels type of snare and I think Producer Don Was recognised that.
The drums on Voodoo were supposed to be more boomy not so "tinny" sounding as they were on previous recordings like Tattoo You, Dirty Work, and Steel Wheels. Also it compliments Daryl Jones thick sound as the other half of the rythm section much better as opposed to the Bill Wyman style of bass (not that there was anything wrong with it).
The reason drums on "Forty Licks" new material aren't as in your face as Voodoo and some tracks on Bridges is because the tracks are more POP-Guitar oriented like "Don't Stop" or "Stealing my Heart" and "Keys to your love".
It is all in the feel they are going for at the time you see.
Just my thoughts. Nobody is right or wrong.
All just good thoughts.
Ian |
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| IanBillen |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
That would mean that they wouldn't blow up at each other and go do two entirely different recording sessions. From what I can see from my far far distance of the Jagger/Richards relationship, that's not gonna happen. Unfortunately I think at this point they are no longer completely sympathetic as collaborators nor do I feel they have the flawless and fearless creative instincts necessary to produce their own records. They NEED a producer to help them bring out what is naturally inside them. I don't think that they can make a "real" Rolling Stones record on their own anymore. Unfortunately.
-Alot of truth to what you say-
Not to mention times are different as we'll. 9-10 albums that make it big today have a producer or atleast a co-producer along with the artist.
Ian
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| IanBillen |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
Considering that they'd never use someone like Jim Dickinson (my first choice) or a nice sweet analog-based studio like the Sound of Music in Richmond, I think that Rick Ruben is a pretty good choice.
Don Was did an excellent job at reproducing the warmth analog can bring on Voodoo and "always suffereing" from Bridges. Although I am sure digital was tracked in these recordings as we'll as analog.
Ian |
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| SoulSurvivr |
quote:
mac_daddy wrote:
Jimmy Miller is widely recognized in the industry as being able to mic the drums, and get a better drum sound, than anybody, ever...
not knocking ck, but those are the facts...
[Edited by mac_daddy]
Tell that to the guys that recorded When the Levee Breaks (Johns/Page)
[Edited by SoulSurvivr]
[Edited by SoulSurvivr] |
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| scratched |
Why not stick with Don? He seems to be a good mediator between Mick and Keith, knows what he is doing and has produced good results. The Daniel Lanois suggestion above would be ideal for a Keith solo album - especially the ballads. That would be worth hearing. |
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