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| Zeeta |
It would effect keith too deeply medically to quit smoking. At his age and the amount of smokes he has a day the shock to the system would be immense and not worth it.
He is in amazing health.
My dad is exactly the same age but has had cancer, pnumonia, and a stroke and is still smoking 30 a day and loads of booze.
Some people just can't get enough of the good times and partying and then they get into the habit of drinking every night (and day!).
Even if he quit would he cut it? Would he bollocks! Imagine Keith playing sets sober! It wouldn't have the same relevance.
If keith cleaned up it would be the end of the Stones - *especially* if his playing deteriorates a la Ronnies this tour. |
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| Pattie |
Rollie! |
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| FotiniD |
quote:
Zeeta wrote:
If keith cleaned up it would be the end of the Stones - *especially* if his playing deteriorates a la Ronnies this tour.
What do you mean deteriorates? I think Ronnie played better than he has for a long time at this tour! And I don't think I'm the only one, a look on some of the comments posted on this board before & after the tour would confirm that. |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
quote:
Honky Tonk Man wrote:
As usual, great posts from Gazza and tsyz.
I don't think its Keith’s drinking which is affecting his playing. I think it has more to do with the arthritis he has in his fingers. Ronnie plays bad a lot of the time purely because he's drunk. I still think Keith sounds great and I like the Chuck Berry licks he seems to have incorporated into every song. My only guess is that he's done this because maybe he finds it difficult to hold down bar chords.
Alex
Huh! I have arthritis in my right hand (which prevents me from playing left-handed simply because my hand doesn't have the stamina to play for that long without the wrist grinding itself to pieces), and bar chords aren't the issue. It's more the pain in the joints, especially in the fingers most affected (in my case my thumb and ring finger). But I can pop a couple of Advil before I play and I wind up doing just fine. Granted, I don't know how well any sort of 'tame' painkiller would work for Keith given how much his body is capable of tolerating.
Zeeta - in re Ronnie's deterioration. Ronnie played bad when he was stoned - he stayed very clean this tour in terms of the booze, probably because Jo was with him. Who's the ganja master of the Stones? Keith. Where does Ronnie hang out right before they go on? "The Tuning Room."
Maybe Jo should hang a sign up like they did in '81 - "Do Not Feed The Ronnie!" Then at least we'd have one guitarist operating at 100%.
-tSYX --- I was a pitcher, down in a slump... |
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| Pattie |
Riffhard is a bad influence on Ronnie in terms of drug use |
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| Zeeta |
Fontini - I don't think ronnie's playing improved at all this tour he was miles better "wet". I think he was too nervous without the booze. Don't really care what anyone else thinks. But no disrespect man.
Pattie - good thread!
Savage one - yeah Ronnie should continue to drink but in fair moderation, a tough one admittedly but would be for the best. |
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| Monkey Woman |
Alas, drinking in moderation is impossible for alcoholics, by definition. 
As for Keith, it's a wonder he's not in a worse state. But then, his health is a concern for himself and his family, and his playing is a concern to all of us... I hope he was exagerating his drunk-like-a-fish state for the sake of the onlookers, in that story.
I agree that between drink, spliffs, arthritis and self-indulgence (is that the word?), Keith is walking a very thin line these days, in terms of his contribution to the Stones. Anything can come of it. Maybe someone in his family will make him see the light, as Ronnie's wife and kids did for him. Maybe he'll get a nasty shock like in 1977 with the Toronto bust and will have to face it or sink In any case, I prefer to believe that Keith will fall on his feet one way or another. It would be too sad if he didn't! I just have a feeling there's a lot of life in the old pirate yet, a lot of cunning and a great deal of music...
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| Honky Tonk Man |
[quote]TheSavageYoungXyzzy wrote:
Huh! I have arthritis in my right hand (which prevents me from playing left-handed simply because my hand doesn't have the stamina to play for that long without the wrist grinding itself to pieces), and bar chords aren't the issue. It's more the pain in the joints, especially in the fingers most affected (in my case my thumb and ring finger). But I can pop a couple of Advil before I play and I wind up doing just fine. Granted, I don't know how well any sort of 'tame' painkiller would work for Keith given how much his body is capable of tolerating.
-tSYX --- I was a pitcher, down in a slump...
Bar Chords may not be the issue for you, but they may be for Keith. I am just thinking of the shape of his fingers. It must be harder.
Like you, I know what it's like trying to play guitar with a handicap. I have very limited dexterity on my right fingers, so lead guitar is really, out of the question. I can do the odd little bit here and there though. I’m left handed, but play right handed.
Alex |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Zeeta wrote:
Some people just can't get enough of the good times and partying and then they get into the habit of drinking every night (and day!).
Yeah, and that's especially EASY to do if one is sitting on almost 250 million US Dollars. Like the man said "work is the curse of the drinking classes". It's hard to keep up. I doubt if he ever quits drinking, bar a major catastophe. |
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| gotdablouse |
quote:
Pattie wrote:
Ronnie is atleast trying, can't say the same for Spliff Drukards
I think the reason he's trying is because Mick told him he would be fired if he didn't go into rehab...Sadly it's unlikely he'll have the same approach with Keith! |
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| gotdablouse |
quote:
Zeeta wrote:
Fontini - I don't think ronnie's playing improved at all this tour he was miles better "wet". I think he was too nervous without the booze. Don't really care what anyone else thinks. But no disrespect man.
Same here, I just don't the "birth of a guitar god" crap some people saw in Ronnie for the 2k2/2k3 tours...Other than some fairly impressive monkeying around on CYHMK (look at the Olympia shown on FF and see how crappy it really is), his contribution on stage was as minor as it's been since 1989. 1981 is the last time they really had to go out there and play - watch LSTNT and see that I mean. The addition of scores of side-kicks since 1989 really doesn't challenge them at all now. They could well not be playing at all. |
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| Steel Wheels |
As far as this story is concerned, just because it comes from Stones Doug doesn't mean it's the God damned truth.
So this guy pisses off Keith and comes back the next day to apologize? And wait, this guy is the only one around this rock legend? No lines, no crowds...and for two days straight he can come and go, piss Keef off and come back for make-up drinks.
What a crock of shit. Let's run another 70 some posts up based on internet rumors. |
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| prism |
How much do you think Keith actually drinks? He refrains from drinking too much before a show because of the lack of bathroom breaks. He visits the bar on the island because he's bored and he likes to get away from his wife, and the bar is the only interesting place to go. He's not much into the spa or scuba diving. |
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| Angiegirl |
quote:
Steel Wheels wrote:
As far as this story is concerned, just because it comes from Stones Doug doesn't mean it's the God damned truth.
What a crock of shit. Let's run another 70 some posts up based on internet rumors.
http://www.nypost.com/gossip/15856.htm
That doesn't make it true either, but it doesn't 'come from Shidoobee', the article was just copied from there. |
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| Steel Wheels |
Bored journalist = creative writing project. |
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| stonedinaustralia |
well steel wheels it doesn't mean it's not true and the lack of crowds/fans would seem to be because the resort is "exclusive" so i would hazard a guess that the "fan" in question is probably someone who can afford to hang at such an establishment and gain "access" to keith on a daily basis - doesn't seem like keith's that hard to find anyway -just head down to the bar... |
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| Pattie |
Patti is very beautiful, but she doesn't look anything like a guitar or a vodka bottle, so it's not so strange that he's avoiding her |
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| FotiniD |
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Same here, I just don't the "birth of a guitar god" crap some people saw in Ronnie for the 2k2/2k3 tours...Other than some fairly impressive monkeying around on CYHMK (look at the Olympia shown on FF and see how crappy it really is), his contribution on stage was as minor as it's been since 1989.
I didn't say anything about a "guitar god", I just said that imo his playing really improved tons with regards to what he used to play like while drunk. More focused, less messing around and yet with the Woody element. You may call this monkeying around, well, I happen to like it. It's just a matter of personal preference I suppose, but the fact is he has indeed improved. |
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| Angiegirl |
I can't hear it, but I'm glad for you you can  .
I agree with some others: Ronnie's wasted, Ronnie's gone. The Licks tour only proved that for me. Just my personal opinion. |
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| nankerphelge |
I think Ronnie was playing much better this tour than NS or B2B. He was MIA on those tours -- NS especially -- couldn't hear him at all.
This tour you could hear him and on 4 Flicks you can see that he isn't just goofing around!
Is he the Ronnie of 1975-78 -- no -- but Keith is nowhere near his former self either. I think Keith's playing would be far better if he dried out. But that won't happen. |
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| Joey |
" I think Ronnie was playing much better this tour than NS or B2B. He was MIA on those tours -- NS especially -- couldn't hear him at all. "
The Licks tour was the BEST STONES YET !!!!
It's a shame they couldn't play more dates in the Americas ......................
.......................but there is Hope for the Future .
" Americas ( Central / North / South -- it don't matter ) Crave More Stones Ronnie ! "
Jercee !
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| Gazza |
>I agree with some others: Ronnie's wasted, Ronnie's gone. The Licks tour only proved that for me. Just my personal opinion.
I dont agree. I certainly thought he was MILES better than what I saw of him on the Bridges and No Security tours (with the exception of Shepherd's Bush where I thought he played his ass off). I also thought Keith played better on those tours than on the most recent one. He had to. Ronnie needed less "ass covering" on the Licks tour (Olympia being a notable exception from the reports I've heard, although unlike you,Angie, I wasnt at THAT one!)
However, I saw four shows on the 2002 US leg of the "Licks" tour and nine in Europe and I thought that overall Ronnie played better in the US than he did in Europe. Maybe it depends what part of the tour you caught.
Agree 100% with what nanker said regarding both Ronnie and Keith.
[Edited by Gazza] |
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| Angiegirl |
True, he sounded lots better on the US leg. But most dates in Europe he disappointed me. |
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| nankerphelge |
The other thing that stands out in my mind was the SHITTY sound at so many of the shows. From watching 4 Flicks, it is clear that Ronnie was really playing.
But unfortunatley, at many of the shows he was buried in the mix. That isn't Ronnie's fault -- that's the sound guy's fault! And as far as I am concerned, that jack-ass should have been fired within the first few weeks!
The greatest rock & roll band in the world should have the greatest sound in the world -- period. No excuses.
I saw the sound guy on the 4 Flicks documentary disc -- I hope he is pumping gas these days!
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| Gazza |
>The greatest rock & roll band in the world should have the greatest sound in the world -- period. No excuses.
true. Its also a bit galling if youre paying a week's wages for a ticket for a show that you cant hear properly!
However,as long as I can recall,Keith has tended to be turned up louder than Ronnie - it wasnt as frequent or obvious on the last tour, which may or may not have had something to do with their confidence in Ronnie actually being "present" for the entire show...certainly there were shows on past tours where the noise from Keith practically obliterated him. Paris '98 was one that springs to mind - but then judging by the work Keith put in that night compared to Ronnie's goofing around, maybe there was good reason for it.
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| LadyJane |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
However, I saw four shows on the 2002 US leg of the "Licks" tour and nine in Europe and I thought that overall Ronnie played better in the US than he did in Europe. Maybe it depends what part of the tour you caught.
[Edited by Gazza]
Thank you Gazza!! I was beginning to wonder why some our Euro friends (especially Angiegirl and SSC) were so disappointed with the shows.
I am the first to admit that I am very UNOBJECTIVE when it comes to the Stones. Hell...they could play "Happy Birthday" and I'd be happy.
But I was 3rd Row in Ft. Lauderdale (10/02) on Ronnie's side and he AMAZED me....Hubby too...who is NOT the addict I am.
Now back on topic....I've been worried about Keith's health since the '70's. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this..but I used to go to church, light candles and pray that he wouldn't die from a heroin OD.
His drinking is a big problem and I wish he would get some help. But then again....who am I...one lush calling another lush a lush!!!
LJ. |
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| Joey |
" I hope he is pumping gas these days! "
No , he works at one of the Casinos in Vegas .
I believe it was inside Caesar's Palace where I saw him in the bathroom spraying a deodorizer after I took one of my legendary afternoon sh##s.
Word ..................to Your Jacky !
" Yes , he really IS the Deodorizer Guy at Caesars Ronnie ! "
JackyCakes !
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| Strange_Stray_Cat |
quote:
LadyJane wrote:
Thank you Gazza!! I was beginning to wonder why some our Euro friends (especially Angiegirl and SSC) were so disappointed with the shows.
LJ.
Some shows I attended were really bad imho. But I had some great moments as well. As for Ronnie, I have to agree with Angiegirl: he's finished.
But we did see some great shows. Olympia was the best one for me (not musically, but it was my first club show).
Then again, the main fun is in travelling around the world with great friends and having a good time. |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
LadyJane wrote:
His drinking is a big problem and I wish he would get some help. But then again....who am I...one lush calling another lush a lush!!!
Kind words LJ. But you're not a role model like Keith! So you're off the hook.....lol. Besides he's still got alot of money to drink up. Like Zeeta said, some people just don't want to stop partying, and who can blame them? |
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| kahoosier |
Look or listen to Ronnie in Toronto Club gig boots, at the Palais he is playing his ass off. He carries Torn and Frayed on both the electric and then the pedal steel. But by the time he is in Europe he can hardly be heard sometimes. I have often wondered if it isn't a viscious circle: he gets turned down beacsue he is undependable. His ego gets bruised, he falls off the wagon, fulfills the undendable prophesy...and on and on. I do think even when he is on, Keith wants to be louder because his ego demands that it be that way: he used to bitch about MT being too loud |
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