16th January 2008 03:25 PM |
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Brainbell Jangler |
quote: Fiji Joe wrote:
.shades of the Gulf of Tonkin
Gulf of Tonkin? Try "Straits of Hormuz." You really should update your phony-excuse-for-a-war-in-Asia references. |
16th January 2008 03:31 PM |
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Fiji Joe |
quote: Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Gulf of Tonkin? Try "Straits of Hormuz." You really should update your phony-excuse-for-a-war-in-Asia references.
No doubt...Gulf of Tonkin as a phony pretext to war is historically inaccurate anyway...isn't it?...we were already at war in Vietnam weren't we?...Say..do you know who put us in Vietnam?
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16th January 2008 03:36 PM |
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tumbled |
quote: Fiji Joe wrote:
I don't hate joey...the question is, why is he so freakishly obsessed with certain people who post here?...If you will notice, he mentions my name constantly...yet, I only address him on rare occasions...roughly once every two weeks..so kindly address your questions to that cornhusker freak who has been following me around from post to post here for going on 5 years...seriously...ask him
gee I dont' know why. but just like ignore people if they bug you . it makes em mad.
you gotta not take a website very seriously otherwise it becomes like "crisis clinic" like rs.com or something whacko you know what I mean? the whole thing goes down in flames, gotta keep everything on a precarious balance so nobody commits suicide or some nonsense. people get feelings hurt REALLY EASILY esp. if they drink a lot
[Edited by tumbled] |
16th January 2008 04:04 PM |
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Joey |
quote: Fiji Joe wrote:
...shouts of "fixed...fixed"...shades of the Gulf of Tonkin
W- What ?!
............
[cc:ss]
[Edited by Joey] |
16th January 2008 08:14 PM |
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Brainbell Jangler |
quote: Fiji Joe wrote:
No doubt...Gulf of Tonkin as a phony pretext to war is historically inaccurate anyway...isn't it?...we were already at war in Vietnam weren't we?...Say..do you know who put us in Vietnam?
You know what I meant. And yes, I do know: Eisenhower. |
16th January 2008 09:45 PM |
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texile |
back to hillary..i'm reading the polls and obama is gaining traction....
i'm just stunned that people would think hillary is electable...
there is no way this woman will beat a mcain or even a huckabee.... |
16th January 2008 10:11 PM |
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Riffhard |
quote: Brainbell Jangler wrote:
You know what I meant. And yes, I do know: Eisenhower.
Please dispense with this nonsense about Eisenhower starting Vietnam. While it is true that Eisenhower put a slew of cash into what, at the time, was a French war. He did so at the behest of our ally, France. (There was a time when allied countries had each others backs.) Plus the Dems in the House and Senate were fully behind the funding as well. Also, it bears pointing out that Eisenhower was merely continuing the funding of France's excursion into Indochina/Vietnam that was instituted by Truman.
However, it was Kennedy who escalated the war into a full fledged "American" war. Eisenhower may have proped up France's efforts finacially, but he only commited a handfull of military advisors. Kennedy, and to an even greater extant, Lyndon Johnson, are the two presidents who escalated the American military commitment by tens of thousands thus engaging the North Vietnamese into open warfare.
There is no way of pinning the Vietnam War to Eisenhower with any historical credability.
Riffy |
16th January 2008 11:36 PM |
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Brainbell Jangler |
The French were out of Vietnam before the end of 1954. Ike left office in January 1961. What do you think was happening there for 5 years? First, there was the temporary demarcation, with Viet Minh nationalists assigned to the northern sector and supporters of the collaborationist puppet Emperor Bao Dai in the south. Under the terms of the Geneva Accords, elections were to be held in 1956. The puppet Diem regime, at the direction of the US, cancelled the elections because they knew that national hero Ho Chi Minh would win overwhelmingly. Instead, Diem declared the southern sector to be the "Republic of Vietnam," another violation of the Geneva Accords. At that point, the southern Vietnamese nationalists who had gone north in 1954 returned home to fight against this renegade regime. Ike's Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, called this a "North Vietnamese invasion" and made it the excuse for military aid to the outlaw Saigon regime. That's howe the US war against the Vietnamese people began. |
16th January 2008 11:36 PM |
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Dan |
quote: texile wrote:
back to hillary..i'm reading the polls and obama is gaining traction....
i'm just stunned that people would think hillary is electable...
there is no way this woman will beat a mcain or even a huckabee....
Funny, I know Republicans in a panic saying no way Huckabee would beat Clinton. So many people on both sides are panicking over their candidates and the electability issue I am starting to think the oval office is going to be empty next year. |
16th January 2008 11:48 PM |
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Fiji Joe |
quote: Brainbell Jangler wrote:
The French were out of Vietnam before the end of 1954. Ike left office in January 1961. What do you think was happening there for 5 years? First, there was the temporary demarcation, with Viet Minh nationalists assigned to the northern sector and supporters of the collaborationist puppet Emperor Bao Dai in the south. Under the terms of the Geneva Accords, elections were to be held in 1956. The puppet Diem regime, at the direction of the US, cancelled the elections because they knew that national hero Ho Chi Minh would win overwhelmingly. Instead, Diem declared the southern sector to be the "Republic of Vietnam," another violation of the Geneva Accords. At that point, the southern Vietnamese nationalists who had gone north in 1954 returned home to fight against this renegade regime. Ike's Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, called this a "North Vietnamese invasion" and made it the excuse for military aid to the outlaw Saigon regime. That's howe the US war against the Vietnamese people began.
You sir, will be banned... |
17th January 2008 12:07 AM |
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Riffhard |
quote: Brainbell Jangler wrote:
The French were out of Vietnam before the end of 1954. Ike left office in January 1961. What do you think was happening there for 5 years? First, there was the temporary demarcation, with Viet Minh nationalists assigned to the northern sector and supporters of the collaborationist puppet Emperor Bao Dai in the south. Under the terms of the Geneva Accords, elections were to be held in 1956. The puppet Diem regime, at the direction of the US, cancelled the elections because they knew that national hero Ho Chi Minh would win overwhelmingly. Instead, Diem declared the southern sector to be the "Republic of Vietnam," another violation of the Geneva Accords. At that point, the southern Vietnamese nationalists who had gone north in 1954 returned home to fight against this renegade regime. Ike's Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, called this a "North Vietnamese invasion" and made it the excuse for military aid to the outlaw Saigon regime. That's howe the US war against the Vietnamese people began.
Thanks for that brief history lesson BBJ. I knew all that, but thanks all the same.
None of that changes the facts that I pointed out though. It is all well and fine to claim that Eisenhower started the war, but it's just not true. He was only following the very real mandate that Truman had previously laid out. He never commited more than a few hundred advisors, and quite a few bucks, to help prevent the advancement of communism. At the time this made perfect sense. However, it was not Eisenhower that called up the tens of thousands of troops that Kennedy and then Lyndon Johnson did. They are the two presidents more responsible than either Eisenhower before or Nixon after, that escalated the conflict into a full scale war.
Both parties were in full agreement at the outset of the war anyway. So there is plenty of blame to go around, but to try and say that Eisenhower started the war is just not true.
I don't understand your "blame America" attitude towards Vietnam anyway. There can be very little doubt that had the goodguys actually won the war there never would have been a Khmer Rouge or the Cambodian killing fields. For that matter there would not have been the thousands of boat people or Re-Education Camps where thousands of people never returned from!
Riffy |
17th January 2008 12:23 AM |
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Dan |
quote: Brainbell Jangler wrote:
You know what I meant. And yes, I do know: Eisenhower.
Roosevelt. |
17th January 2008 05:32 AM |
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lotsajizz |
quote: Riffhard wrote:
There can be very little doubt that had the goodguys actually won the war there never would have been a Khmer Rouge or the Cambodian killing fields.
Riffy
What ignorant, revisionist crap. The extension of the formal war to Cambodia by the notorious war criminals Nixon and Kissinger in May 1970 was what led a backward, remote state to the world stage and then the brink of extnction. "You play with my world like it's your little toy". |
17th January 2008 06:01 AM |
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glencar |
tumbled, no way I had you banned. Please don't cast aspersions. You probably did something dumb when making posts & couldn't log in properly. Before making wild accusations, PM Gazza. I can assure you that I was not very concerned with your posts yesterday. Good luck in all future endeavors. |
17th January 2008 09:03 AM |
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Fiji Joe |
quote: glencar wrote:
tumbled, no way I had you banned. Please don't cast aspersions. You probably did something dumb when making posts & couldn't log in properly. Before making wild accusations, PM Gazza. I can assure you that I was not very concerned with your posts yesterday. Good luck in all future endeavors.
Notice how she's typing in all caps...idiot's keyboard is on caps lock...so that's why her password won't work...there's a democrat for ya |
17th January 2008 10:50 AM |
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Joey |
" Notice how she's typing in all caps...idiot's keyboard is on caps lock...so that's why her password won't work...there's a democrat for ya "
you just do NOT have the postin' gene ..... do ya son ?
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17th January 2008 11:25 AM |
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Riffhard |
quote: lotsajizz wrote:
What ignorant, revisionist crap. The extension of the formal war to Cambodia by the notorious war criminals Nixon and Kissinger in May 1970 was what led a backward, remote state to the world stage and then the brink of extnction. "You play with my world like it's your little toy".
LOL! Just like Leftard! You try and prove your point and you get so excited that you shoot your wad in the second sentence of your post! You are claiming that the President and the Sec of State of the USA were war criminals?! Not just war criminals mind you, but, "notorious war criminals". You guys are always so willing suspend the notion of real historical context. If you are going to go out of your way to shit all over your country then at least tell the whole story! You might want to include the vicious brutal truth about the communist Viet Cong and the Khmer Rouge, in Cambodia. That part of the story is unimportant to you because you're such concerned and compassionate liberal, right? Spare me.
Damn, it's funny the way you so gleefully throw your own country under the bus all in the name of your insane, inane, immature little petty partisan pissings! The fact that you also are trying to claim that I am a revisionist is a bit of a stretch as well. I mean we are talking about a thread that is claiming that Eisenhower "started" the Vietnam War! Who's rewriting history here?
Riffy
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17th January 2008 11:59 AM |
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Ten Thousand Motels |
quote: Riffhard wrote:
Damn, it's funny the way you so gleefully throw your own country under the bus all in the name of your insane, inane, immature little petty partisan pissings!
A country isn't the same thing as the corrupt politicians who try to run it into the ground.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
17th January 2008 12:11 PM |
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Riffhard |
quote: Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
A country isn't the same thing as the corrupt politicians who try to run it into the ground.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels]
Thanks for the input TTM! Again, I ask would you please try and look through the real historical prism of time as opposed to the leftists' manifesto. You're so right though! Nixon and Kissinger were trying to run the country into the ground by way of Cambodia! Sheeeshhh! That you actually believe that horseshit is hysterical!
You are a good little comrade! Be proud.
Riffy
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17th January 2008 12:40 PM |
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Ten Thousand Motels |
quote: Riffhard wrote:
Thanks for the input TTM! Again, I ask would you please try and look through the real historical prism of time as opposed to the leftists' manifesto. You're so right though! Nixon and Kissinger were trying to run the country into the ground by way of Cambodia! Sheeeshhh! That you actually believe that horseshit is hysterical!
You are a good little comrade! Be proud.
Riffy
I think you missed the point. |
17th January 2008 01:02 PM |
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lotsajizz |
quote: Riffhard wrote:
If you are going to go out of your way to shit all over your country Riffy
No, the ones shitting all over America are the unpatriotic, phalangist, "dual citizenship" advocating types that American heros like Smedley Butler and Ike warned us about--like you Mr. Rifftard.
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17th January 2008 01:06 PM |
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TampabayStone |
Hey Tumbled, you can come back, nobody cares about last night. |
17th January 2008 01:12 PM |
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glencar |
quote: lotsajizz wrote:
No, the ones shitting all over America are the unpatriotic, phalangist, "dual citizenship" advocating types that American heros like Smedley Butler and Ike warned us about--like you Mr. Rifftard.
Dual citizenship types? LOL |
17th January 2008 01:27 PM |
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lotsajizz |
Laugh as our foreign policy is hijacked for advantage in Asiatic tribal conflicts |
17th January 2008 01:48 PM |
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glencar |
can u b more specific? |
17th January 2008 02:44 PM |
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Joey |
" You try and prove your point and you get so excited that you shoot your wad in the second sentence of your post! You are claiming that the President and the Sec of State of the USA were war criminals?! Not just war criminals mind you, but, "notorious war criminals". You guys are always so willing suspend the notion of....... "
J to the O to the E to the Y !!!!!!
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17th January 2008 03:02 PM |
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glencar |
Sissy needs a new perm AND a new image! |
17th January 2008 03:03 PM |
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Joey |
" ... nobody cares about last night. "
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17th January 2008 07:57 PM |
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texile |
quote: Dan wrote:
Funny, I know Republicans in a panic saying no way Huckabee would beat Clinton. So many people on both sides are panicking over their candidates and the electability issue I am starting to think the oval office is going to be empty next year.
all i know is,
if i were a republican - i'd be rooting for hillary and bill....because they come in a package. |
17th January 2008 07:59 PM |
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steel driving hammer |
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