| 26th January 2007 02:38 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
Bitch wrote:
I know Dylan wasnt calling Carter a nigger but the fact is he said that people did call Carter a nigger.
which they did.And the problem with highlighting that is what? His comments were anti-racist.
> My point is, back then (was is 20 years ago?)
1976
> people could use words more easily than in today's society of polical correctness. Do you think if the song came out today it would get no criticism?
It wouldnt, because Dylan isnt calling anyone 'nigger' but taking offence at others dismissing a black man as one. Who would be getting the criticism youre talking about? A writer whose stood up for black people for four decades slamming racists for referring to someone as a 'nigger'? I dont think so.
>Look what the Stones went thru with NeoCon
the Stones didnt 'go through' anything, Ellen. It was a two minute news story. Only the likes of Fox gave a shit about it and then it was quickly forgotten about. I dont recall any boycotts, hearing about ticket sale slumps, hearing stories about any shop refusing to stock the album or radio stations boycotting the band's music. Even Riffy played it! They didnt suffer at all. That said, the fact that they didnt play the song live didnt do any harm, although that had as much to do with the fact that nost people thought it was fucking awful regardless of the sentiment.
>or the Dixie Chicks with the anti-Bush sentiment.
that I agree with you with. A totally over the top reaction based on an inconsequential remark that no civilised human being should have given a shit about and should simply have ignored rather than publicise it if they didnt agree with it. Chrissie Hynde's onstage comments about the war in Iraq where she actually stated that she hoped "we fucking lose" was a lot more insensitive but was pretty much ignored, probably because she doesnt sell many records anymore.
>People take everything more seriously now than they used to. IMO.
well, they do. you're right - but then again, the entertainment industry is beset by political correctness these days anyway, as it seems everyone is afraid of losing money - which seems to be the only important factor nowadays. There's very little in the way of 'revolutionary' rock music now and when you compare the industry to what it was like in the 60s and 70's its barely recognisable. I have to laugh when I see today's music or movie stars feeling obliged to go on national TV to 'apologise' if they get caught fucking up in public. Its because theyre shit scared of what will happen to their career. Thirty years ago, such outrageous behaviour was almost compulsory. You cant really imagine Jagger going on the Tonight Show to 'apologise' to Keith and his fans for fucking Anita on the set of 'Performance', can you?
[Edited by Gazza] |
| 26th January 2007 03:01 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
When you use such descriptive labels as "nigger", "liberal", "conservative", etc. in your argument, you run the risk of having people just ignore you and your underlying idea once they see the word...right or wrong, that is the effect those words can have...happens to me all the time here...not bitching about it, just making a reality based point
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| 26th January 2007 05:01 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
>or the Dixie Chicks with the anti-Bush sentiment.
that I agree with you with. A totally over the top reaction based on an inconsequential remark that no civilised human being should have given a shit about and should simply have ignored rather than publicise it if they didnt agree with it. Chrissie Hynde's onstage comments about the war in Iraq where she actually stated that she hoped "we fucking lose" was a lot more insensitive but was pretty much ignored, probably because she doesnt sell many records anymore.
I fully agree with you Gazza regarding Chrissie Hynde's remarks. It was the very reason I chose to skip the Pretenders opening set at the Garden show. However,I am not with you as far as the Dixie Chicks go for one reason alone. The Dixie Chicks are stupid fucking tools if they didn't have the common fucking sense to relize who their fan base was. The fact is that country music fans tend to very patriotic and God fearing salt of the earth types. That these idiots would go to London and slam the ppresident of the United States durin atime of war and expect no fallout from thier fans just shows an extreme case of idiocy. They have reaped what they themselves have sewn.
Riffy |
| 26th January 2007 05:09 PM |
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| Joey |
quote:
Bitch wrote:
The answer is NO, it does not. Not on the planet and not in cyberspace. FREEDOM OF SPEECH is just an idealistic theory that doesn't mean shit because as soon as someone says something that someone else finds offensive, it's CENSORED by the authorities and criticised.
You raise an interesting analysis ....... bitch !
You see bitch , I too , bitch , have felt for years now a deteriorating and uncivil -- yet sensate -- atmosphere amongst our population that obdurates the space / time continuum so prevalent in our society .................
............... ****** IMMEDIATE END TO TRANSMISSION ********* .......................
kins |
| 26th January 2007 05:16 PM |
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| SheRat |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
>Freedom of speech is all very well if you use that right responsibly<
Anarchy is for the Angels. Humans are too irresponsible to make it work.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels]
This is an amazing quote. Is it yours? |
| 26th January 2007 05:20 PM |
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| Some Guy |
quote:
Joey wrote:
You raise an interesting analysis ....... bitch !
You see bitch , I too , bitch , have felt for years now a deteriorating and uncivil -- yet sensate -- atmosphere amongst our population that obdurates the space / time continuum so prevalent in our society .................
............... ****** IMMEDIATE END TO TRANSMISSION ********* .......................
kins
Have a good weekend J! |
| 26th January 2007 05:33 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
I fully agree with you Gazza regarding Chrissie Hynde's remarks. It was the very reason I chose to skip the Pretenders opening set at the Garden show. However,I am not with you as far as the Dixie Chicks go for one reason alone. The Dixie Chicks are stupid fucking tools if they didn't have the common fucking sense to relize who their fan base was.
Stupid? Yep.... thats not the point though. The over the top reaction wasnt from their fan base, but the media and the music industry in general. Having your music blacklisted because you happen to feel embarrassed at being from the same state of the POTUS is over the top. Big whoop. No one who was there probably gave a shit five minutes after they said it. Its not like they burned a stars and stripes and called for his assassination.
quote:
The fact is that country music fans tend to very patriotic and God fearing salt of the earth types.
It sounds like I'm nitpicking, but 'fact' and 'tend to' arent the same things. You're stereotyping that audience. Patriotism doesnt belong to one select group or political leaning anyway, but its a personally defined interpretation. I've been to several country shows in the last couple of years where the artist was a long way removed from that stereotype, and werent shy about saying so. Maybe its more of an 'alt-country' thing, but it's still 'country' nonetheless.
Riffy - even YOU played Sweet NeoCon. I listened in, remember. 
[Edited by Gazza] |
| 26th January 2007 05:33 PM |
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| ComeAsYouAre |
Lenny Bruce comes to mind |
| 26th January 2007 05:43 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
ComeAsYouAre wrote:
Lenny Bruce comes to mind
I'm constantly hearing Joe strummers lyrics on Know Your Rights! #3 aplies here...
This is a public service announcement
With guitar
Know your rights all three of them
Number 1
You have the right not to be killed
Murder is a crime!
Unless it was done by a
Policeman or aristocrat
Know your rights
And number 2
You have the right to food money
Providing of course you
Dont mind a little
Investigation, humiliation
And if you cross your fingers
Rehabilitation
Number 3
You have the right to free
Speech as long as youre not
Dumb enough to actually try it.
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| 26th January 2007 07:36 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Its not like they burned a stars and stripes and called for his assassination.
You're dealing with Bush Geeks - take a shot on that nitwit, you may as well have burned the flag or been talkin' about their mommas. |
| 26th January 2007 07:48 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
It sounds like I'm nitpicking, but 'fact' and 'tend to' arent the same things. You're stereotyping that audience. Patriotism doesnt belong to one select group or political leaning anyway, but its a personally defined interpretation. I've been to several country shows in the last couple of years where the artist was a long way removed from that stereotype, and werent shy about saying so. Maybe its more of an 'alt-country' thing, but it's still 'country' nonetheless.
Riffy - even YOU played Sweet NeoCon. I listened in, remember.
[Edited by Gazza]
Well I guess I should have prefaced that last bit with the disclaimer that the "vast" majority of country music fans are,patriotic God fearing folks who get very upset at the thought of some spoiled little rich bitch running down the president,and by association the USA,and even their own patriotic fan base. I mean the way these people saw it Natalie Manes made her fortune from them,and she just went and bad mouthed "their" president on forign soil during a time of war. They saw that in effect she was speaking for them,and that pissed them off to no end. I can only say what I know happened on the radio side of things.
The country radio stations across the USA were inundated with calls for a Dixie Chicks boycott. I know that that happened because I'm in the bussiness,and I read all the articles in the trade rags. It was crazy. Kinda reminded me of John Lennon's "We're bigger than Jesus" dealio. It wasn't the stations that made this call it was the fans. They were pissed,and rightly so I might add. Many felt that it was a direct betrayal by the Dixie Chicks of the people that put them on the map,and made them very rich.
I did play Sweet Neo Con! You had to bring that up?! LOL! It will NEVER happen agian! Mainly because the song just plain sucks.
Riffy |
| 26th January 2007 08:03 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
You're dealing with Bush Geeks - take a shot on that nitwit, you may as well have burned the flag or been talkin' about their mommas.
Try and be at least a little honest here Moonie! She could well have been talking about Bubba Clinton. UIt woul;d not have made a damned bit of difference. That she would bad mouth the POTUS on foriegn soil during war is what sparked the outrage. It could have been anyone in the White House at the time,and you know it.
Your condesending Bush Geeks shit has been played for years now bro. Get some new material.
Riffy |
| 26th January 2007 08:04 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
The country radio stations across the USA were inundated with calls for a Dixie Chicks boycott. I know that that happened because I'm in the bussiness,and I read all the articles in the trade rags. It was crazy. Kinda reminded me of John Lennon's "We're bigger than Jesus" dealio. It wasn't the stations that made this call it was the fans. They were pissed,and rightly so I might add. Many felt that it was a direct betrayal by the Dixie Chicks of the people that put them on the map,and made them very rich.
Yes, but how can you assume they were predominantly fans of the band that did that. The public will say anything to get their point across. So, they dislike the President and said so. Election results suggested they were hardly alone, as both times it was pretty close. No big deal. Over here, musicians take pot shots at elected leaders all the time. They're fair game regardless of who they are.
Your analogy with the Lennon/Jesus thing is pretty accurate - but its a bit like assuming the morons who were burning their records were fans to begin with (it reminds me of that scene in the Rutles film where people were BUYING the records JUST to burn them. Good for sales!) I'm sure youve seen that news footage of the Klan wizard standing outside the stadium where the Beatles were about to perform that evening going on about how they were a Christian organisation and they were planning to disrupt the concert..LOL
[Edited by Gazza] |
| 26th January 2007 08:11 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Yes, but how can you assume they were predominantly fans of the band that did that. The public will say anything to get their point across.
Your analogy with the Lennon/Jesus thing is pretty accurate - but its a bit like assuming the morons who were burning their records were fans to begin with (it reminds me of that scene in the Rutles film where people were BUYING the records JUST to burn them. Good for sales!) I'm sure youve seen that news footage of the Klan wizard standing outside the stadium where the Beatles were about to perform that evening going on about how they were a Christian organisation and they were planning to disrupt the concert..LOL
The lennon thing was different to a degree..it was as you say mostly people who weren't his listeners anyway...the Dixie chicks thing was a bit different...for the reasons Riffy says...as a musician, you ought to have enough sense, if you're dead set on making a political statement, to not name names or otherwise get too specific...not much benefit to that and the risk is too great as many have learned...beyond that, it just makes for much better songwriting to write in vagaries...when you don't, your songs become dated after a time...and God forbid your viewpoints change...always best to attack the idea rather than the person |
| 26th January 2007 08:22 PM |
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| pdog |
are we forgetting The Dixie Chicks kinda suck...?
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| 26th January 2007 08:29 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Try and be at least a little honest here Moonie! She could well have been talking about Bubba Clinton. UIt woul;d not have made a damned bit of difference. That she would bad mouth the POTUS on foriegn soil during war is what sparked the outrage. It could have been anyone in the White House at the time,and you know it.
Your condesending Bush Geeks shit has been played for years now bro. Get some new material.
Riffy
Agreed on the first part - rocker hits a Pres, its gets uproar.
But the foreign soil bit makes no sense. I can hardly wait to get to Guatemala and Belize in March, so I can trash George Walker Bush III on foreign soil during a war. I'll even try to post from there to prove I did it. Pointing out the stupidity and incompetence of the man on intimate soil ain't doing enough for me. I'm going globalistical.
Sorry if you feel its condescending Riffy. Your political posts are pretty extreme too, although I agree with a lot of them, when I weed out the piss. And trust me, I didn't start condensationalism. I watched that fly around for a long while before I even said anything. |
| 27th January 2007 12:51 AM |
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| Bitch |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
> My point is, back then (was is 20 years ago?)
1976
>Look what the Stones went thru with NeoCon
the Stones didnt 'go through' anything, Ellen. It was a two minute news story. Only the likes of Fox gave a shit about it and then it was quickly forgotten about. I dont recall any boycotts, hearing about ticket sale slumps, hearing stories about any shop refusing to stock the album or radio stations boycotting the band's music. Even Riffy played it! They didnt suffer at all. That said, the fact that they didnt play the song live didnt do any harm, although that had as much to do with the fact that nost people thought it was fucking awful regardless of the sentiment.
>People take everything more seriously now than they used to. IMO.
well, they do. you're right - but then again, the entertainment industry is beset by political correctness these days anyway, as it seems everyone is afraid of losing money - which seems to be the only important factor nowadays. There's very little in the way of 'revolutionary' rock music now and when you compare the industry to what it was like in the 60s and 70's its barely recognisable. I have to laugh when I see today's music or movie stars feeling obliged to go on national TV to 'apologise' if they get caught fucking up in public. Its because theyre shit scared of what will happen to their career. Thirty years ago, such outrageous behaviour was almost compulsory. You cant really imagine Jagger going on the Tonight Show to 'apologise' to Keith and his fans for fucking Anita on the set of 'Performance', can you?
[Gazza]
No, wasn't there a bomb scare at one of the concerts because of this? Stones left the stage for 45 minutes for a sweep and came back to continue the show. Oh that took courage they could have called it a night, but on with the show!
Some TV actor recently made a derogatory comment about gays, and they sent him to rehab! What a joke, its just for show so the public will forgive him. Network might fire his the ass anyway. Is rehab for opinions now? |
| 27th January 2007 12:59 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Bitch wrote:
No, wasn't there a bomb scare at one of the concerts because of this? Stones left the stage for 45 minutes for a sweep and came back to continue the show. Oh that took courage they could have called it a night, but on with the show!
The liberal media tries to supress it, but Sweet Neo-Con was all about George Walker Bush III - I saw Mick say that like 10 times. I must be believed! |
| 27th January 2007 01:21 AM |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
oz long ago abandoned freedom for socialism...they're almost as bad as Europe now....
interesting comment jizzy - could you please expand on it a little - last time i looked out my window (and at my bank account) it seemed we had a fairly healthy capitalist society going on here
thanks
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
| 27th January 2007 01:31 AM |
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| Taptrick |
new congressmen are no longer to be referred to a freshmen - there is some serious work going on during the first 100 hours.
[Edited by Taptrick] |
| 27th January 2007 09:23 AM |
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| corgi37 |
So i guess Neil Young's last album is dated? Dumb comment. Then "Sweet black angel" is dated.
"We shall overcome" is dated.
"Ohio" is dated?
Good lyrics should represent the moment. They dont get fucking dated. Otherwise, every one would be singing about the future.
What alot of wing nuts cant comprehend is that rock is mostly a young fellas/chicks game and those same young people are generally more radical and idealisic. Hence, a more "left" leaning view on life. So it should be. Country music is usually written for the downtrodden masses. Uneducated types. Hicks. Rednecks. Sister lovers.
The last vestige of a scoundrel is to hide behind a flag. |
| 27th January 2007 09:47 AM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
Bitch wrote:
No, wasn't there a bomb scare at one of the concerts because of this? Stones left the stage for 45 minutes for a sweep and came back to continue the show. Oh that took courage they could have called it a night, but on with the show!
There was a bomb scare because the Stones recorded a song called 'Sweet NeoCon'? er, no. There was a bomb scare because one crank thought it would be funny to disrupt 50,000 people's night out with their idea of a sick joke. There are bomb scares everywhere all the time. I was caught up in one 3 days ago. I dont take it personally.
The Stones played almost twice as many shows in the US on this tour as they did on any previous tour and raked in more money than on any tour in history. Whatever fall-out they had due to some laughably, inane, shitty song was inconsequential when you measure it against that.
Maybe thats where we got things wrong in Europe. If we'd called in bomb scares at a show or two they might have kept coming back over and over to spite the cranks and we might have got 80 shows as well...LOL 
[Edited by Gazza] |
| 27th January 2007 11:04 AM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
So i guess Neil Young's last album is dated? Dumb comment. Then "Sweet black angel" is dated.
"We shall overcome" is dated.
"Ohio" is dated?
Good lyrics should represent the moment. They dont get fucking dated. Otherwise, every one would be singing about the future.
What alot of wing nuts cant comprehend is that rock is mostly a young fellas/chicks game and those same young people are generally more radical and idealisic. Hence, a more "left" leaning view on life. So it should be. Country music is usually written for the downtrodden masses. Uneducated types. Hicks. Rednecks. Sister lovers.
The last vestige of a scoundrel is to hide behind a flag.
No...hard for Neil Young's "latest" album to be dated at this point...he just released it...dumb comment..and yeah, the lyrics of Ohio are dated...Sweet Black Angel no..because it's written in vagaries and in any event, I don't consider that a "political song"...for that reason...more historical...ala Sympathy for the Devil...I don't think Jagger was making some grand statement on racism...see Street Fighting Man for an example of what I'm talking about
"Country music is usually written for the downtrodden masses. Uneducated types. Hicks. Rednecks. Sister lovers."
You must be a huge fan |
| 27th January 2007 11:05 AM |
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| Fiji Joe |
[quote]Gazza wrote:
There was a bomb scare because one crank thought it would be funny to disrupt 50,000 people's night out with their idea of a sick joke.
---
Obviously someone who couldn't afford a ticket... |
| 27th January 2007 11:50 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
"Free Speech" really only exists for the people who have the balls and audacity to excersise it. Between the PC nonsense of the Democrats and the warmongering neocon republicans, sound thinking and opinion has been banished to the twilight Zone.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
| 27th January 2007 12:20 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
 |
| 27th January 2007 12:37 PM |
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| *ginda |
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
The last vestige of a scoundrel is to hide behind a flag.
A scoundrel or a snot blowing block head like O'Reilly and his puppets.
"For What It's Worth" is another song that is as relevant today as it was back in the day. |
| 27th January 2007 12:44 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
*ginda wrote:
"For What It's Worth" is another song that is as relevant today as it was back in the day.
 |
| 27th January 2007 12:49 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
Feel Like I'm Fixing To Die Rag
Come on all of you big strong men
Uncle Sam needs your help again
he's got himself in a terrible jam
way down yonder in Viet Nam so
put down your books and pick up a gun we're
gonna have a whole lotta fun
(CHORUS)
And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for
don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam
And it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates
ain't no time to wonder why, whoopee we're all gonna die
Come on generals, let's move fast
your big chance has come at last
now you can go out and get those reds
cos the only good commie is the one that's dead and
you know that peace can only be won when we've
blown 'em all to kingdom come
Come on wall street don't be slow
why man this war is a go-go
there's plenty good money to be made by
supplying the army with the tools of its trade
let's hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
they drop it on the Viet Cong
Come on mothers throughout the land
pack your boys off to Viet Nam
come on fathers don't hesitate
send your sons off before it's too late
and you can be the first ones on your block
to have your boy come home in a box
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| 27th January 2007 12:53 PM |
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| *ginda |
You beat me to the punch, TTM. Right on, brother! |
