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| CS |
"We don't have patriotism in England like you do in America. Patriotism like that went out the window with the first World War -- when it was proved to be a load of bollocks." -- MICK JAGGER
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| F505 |
Wise words... |
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| Mathijs |
It seems Jagger isn’t too fond of America…Last month in a Dutch interview he said, “America is sooo hung up, they have so many frustrations. Everything is in extreme: sex, violence, drugs, religion, patriotism. They should learn to cool out a bit”. In a 1995 interview he said: “I never felt at home there. I mean the atmosphere…New York City was cool in the late 70’s, things were moving, but in general, I mean, how can one feel relaxed when everybody is pointing guns at each other? Live and let live, that’s what they ought to learn a bit, and not try to be utter control freaks”.
Mathijs |
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| nankerphelge |
That kind of surprises me since Mick is apparently proud of his Britishness. And I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean it in an entirely good, patriotic way. For example, when Ronnie came on board he was very big on keeping the band all Brit. In '81 he draped himself in a giant Union Jack. In '78 he opened some of the shows noting that the Stones were from England. Patriotism is hardly a bad thing. An American patriotism in particular is a great thing considering that, as a country, we do not share the strong ethnic commonalities like so many other countries (like Britain).
As far as his statement that it is hard to feel comfortable here with everyone pointing guns at each other, I think that is a bit absurd coming from a guy that has so much security around him and stays in some of the safer penthouse suites known to man. I suspect that is more a thinly veiled comment on our Constitutional right to bear arms that was, oddly enough, put in place because Britain was pointing a few guns at us some 200 years ago!
Wise ass words is more like it! |
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| Cardinal Ximinez |
You go nank! |
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| ~AzQb |
yeah nanker,
and what of the old Union Jack he sooo proudly hailed on '81?? Huh?? Mick, i think YER convolutedly patriotic, in yer own goofy way ; )
~A |
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| Cardinal Ximinez |
Not to nit-pick, but the Union Jack cape that Mick wore in '81 was also half Stars & Stripes. |
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| ~AzQb |
...so...? It was still majorly "the Jack"!
And "not to nit-pick"! Cadinal, you take nit-picking to a new realm of art!
Lovesyou
~A |
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| the lepper |
Mick doesn't like America, but he steals and uses every form of music and current fad that originated here to try to sell records.....And excuse me? Mick calling Americans control freaks? That's a little like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? |
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| Cardinal Ximinez |
Mick: Hello Pot, I am Kettle.
Pot: Hello Kettle.
Mick: You are black.
Pot: Kettle, why you always trying to bring color into this?
Mick's always been a bit of a hypocrite, truth be known. He poses at a lot of things. I don't think that necessarily makes him a bad person, just human. I feel that much of what Mick tosses off to journalists is just stuff that he thinks they want to hear.
I think Mick is patriotic in his own way...he goes to England's international cricket and soccer matches, and cheers for the Brits. He waves the Union Jack around from time to time...uses that ridiculous cockney accent, just to make sure we all remember that he's working class Brit! And if he didn't care about the US, why did he do the NYC gig? Why did he say what he said? Nah, that quote was just more Mick piffle. Take it with a grain of salt of the earth. |
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| F505 |
Wait until Mick will be SIR Mick... |
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| Mathijs |
how you guys can take a crowd pleasing act (that's what it is, nothing more) like the US/UK flag in 1981 as a sign of patriotism is beyond me.
I think Jagger thinks of the US as how most Europeans do: it's a great country, but in general Europeans don't understand and dislike things like the right to bear arms (a 200 year old law...), executions of juveniles and retards, the election of Bush for president, the absence of a social security system, the fanatism when it comes to drugs and religion, and so on. Also I bet the lack of an own culture is missed by Europeans.
Mathijs |
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| nankerphelge |
Sure it's a crowd pleasing act -- but WHY? Because it is the flag of the two countries involved -- and the sight of the flags pleases the crowd precisely because of patriotism which is simply a feeling of pride in one's country. He could have worn a giant tongue or a rainbow or two people fucking and it would have just as easily pleased the crowd. But he didn't -- he chose the flags instead because it evokes a different type of pleasure. The pleasure some of get in seeing our flag. I'm amazed you can't see that!
As for your other point, seems to me you were looking for a reason to vent your feelings toward the U.S. |
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| sandrew |
Mathijs - Please spare us the Continental claptrap. Executing juveniles and retards? First of all, a majority of Europeans support capital punishment; it's the elites who don't. So, if anything, it's a denial of democratic values to bar the death penalty (which I don't support, but that's beside point). Second, the last execution of a mentally disabled person I recall was overseen by one Bill Clinton, during the 1992 primary campaign. His name was Ricky Ray Rector, and Clinton did it look tough on crime.
As for the "absence of a social security system," I take it you mean the absence of an overweening welfare state. Sorry, but even Tony Blair has seen the light on that one. And guns and religious fanaticism: To quote P.J. O'Rourke, this country was founded by relgious nuts with guns. That's the way it is, and that's part of what makes this place so eccentric and vital.
A lack of culture? Jeez, we're a young country. And the fact that we're not encumbered by tradition is why we're so forward-looking and optimistic. It's a trade-off, sure; but "culture," as you call it, sometimes can be stifling.
Sorry to vent like this on a Stones board, but "everybody's gonna need a ventilator" and I get tired of condescending Europeans. |
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| stonedinaustralia |
Remember,as a wise old American once said (Franklin?? Jefferson??), - "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" |
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| Jane Wyman |
One thing for sure: the Australians aren't patriotic at all. I never hear them about their flag. I don't even know how the damn thing looks like! Just amazing in a world where everyone is trying to be the greatest and strongest. |
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| Mathijs |
Sandrew, I wrote down what in my opinion the general European –at least Dutch - feeling towards the States is, and that feeling isn’t necessarily based on truth or hard facts. Of course what we see here in Europe isn’t the best of the US, we just see the extremes like the Jerry Springer shows, and the beauty you will only see when you visit the country. You probably think that I as a Dutchman walk around in wooden shoes with tulips in my hair and a big joint in my mouth, well come over and experience the difference. But when it comes down to facts: it was a big thing in Holland last year when a mentally handicapped was executed in Texas for murder, and Mr. Bush –still the governor – agreed. Further, there’s hardly any European who support the death penalty, and in most European countries this punishment was banned after the second world war when it was used for war criminals. As far as I know France was the last county to ban it in 1981, having not used it for 20 years.
If I appeared pompous to you in any way –I am sorry for that, I didn’t mean to.
Mathijs
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| F505 |
That is a huge generalisation my dear fellow dutchman. Not all Dutch think that way about Americans. The cliches you're mentioning (Jerry Springer) are just a small part of a country with a very diverse culture. A culture with good and bad elements. So don't speak for all Dutchmen but speak for yourself please! |
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| stonedinaustralia |
following jane wymans comments re australia - most australians are patriotic in the sense that they love their country (and so they should it is a very cool place to live despite (or maybe because of) the fact that it is so far away from the rest of the western world), however, and I'm generalising here, it is a distinctinly australian trait to be fairly laconic and laid back about the whole thing (you may or may not have heard the expression "no worries mate - she'll be right" - also anti - authoritarianism is another general characteristic of we australians (remember ned kelly) so the "my country right or wrong" type of attitude doesn't really fit with us. As far as our flag goes, it is blue with the Southern Cross on it plus a union jack in the corner - this last is something a lot of us have a problem with and many would like to see the jack replaced with the flag of the Aboriginal people of australia (a red black and gold band affair).
remember, for what it's worth, mick's mum was one of us.
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| yellow1 |
Yeah Mathijs, calm down, you're being your usual exhuberant self.
Recycling cliches has never been a proof of enlightenment. |
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