| December 30th, 2004 08:44 PM |
|
|
| glencar |
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51896117&cdi=0 |
| December 30th, 2004 09:36 PM |
|
|
| stonedinaustralia |
to make light of human tragedy is only human nature - it is one of our mechanisms to deal with it
most comedy is made at the expense of someone elses misfortune (great or small)
and while this phenomenon has generated an amount of human suffering almost beyond the ken of the entire population of the world it is no different from the human suffering that has been visited upon human beings (either by natural causes or at the hands of others) since the dawn of time
gypsy,LJ and Fotini i find your attitude of "you must not find this funny" or "you must care about this" a bit PC (to say the least) which i find surprising as you all impress me as being fairly open minded and reasonable individuals
having said that you are right to a degree - but it should be a matter for the individual - not some "enforced" moral position
and as has been pointed out the media's attitude to the whole thing is what you would expect - to highlight the tragedy of the dead nationals (choose your own western nation here)by that nation's press, while the tens (perhaps now hundreds) of thousands of dead native inhabitants are only so much "background material" upon which these stories are based - that's not to say that those people haven't suffered but it's now another news story with the various media opening their cheque books for an "exclusive" in order to increase their sales...that's the really disgusting part of it to me - not so much that people may try to find a joke amongst it all but rather the thing will be used by some to generate cashflow |
| December 30th, 2004 10:08 PM |
|
|
| gustavobala |
now, the press are said in 125,000 lost people! |
| December 30th, 2004 10:09 PM |
|
|
| kath |
i think after the diseases and all, it will probably be half a million dead. cholera and dyssentary and malaria....
this is the worst "natural" disaster in recent history..... |
| December 30th, 2004 10:19 PM |
|
|
| gustavobala |
quote:
kath wrote:
i think after the diseases and all, it will probably be half a million dead. cholera and dyssentary and malaria....
this is the worst "natural" disaster in recent history.....
yes, the problem now are all diseases! |
| December 30th, 2004 10:20 PM |
|
|
| glencar |
There still finding massive piles of bodies on the island of Sumatra. What a way to go. |
| December 30th, 2004 10:40 PM |
|
|
| LadyJane |
I have to disagree with you on this one, SIA, my friend.
I don't think Fotini, gypsy or myself are promoting an "enforced moral position". We are simply stating our heartfelt opinion that there is nothing funny about one of the worst natural disasters in recorded history.
LJ. |
| December 30th, 2004 11:29 PM |
|
|
| gypsy |
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
to make light of human tragedy is only human nature - it is one of our mechanisms to deal with it
most comedy is made at the expense of someone elses misfortune (great or small)
and while this phenomenon has generated an amount of human suffering almost beyond the ken of the entire population of the world it is no different from the human suffering that has been visited upon human beings (either by natural causes or at the hands of others) since the dawn of time
gypsy,LJ and Fotini i find your attitude of "you must not find this funny" or "you must care about this" a bit PC (to say the least) which i find surprising as you all impress me as being fairly open minded and reasonable individuals
having said that you are right to a degree - but it should be a matter for the individual - not some "enforced" moral position
and as has been pointed out the media's attitude to the whole thing is what you would expect - to highlight the tragedy of the dead nationals (choose your own western nation here)by that nation's press, while the tens (perhaps now hundreds) of thousands of dead native inhabitants are only so much "background material" upon which these stories are based - that's not to say that those people haven't suffered but it's now another news story with the various media opening their cheque books for an "exclusive" in order to increase their sales...that's the really disgusting part of it to me - not so much that people may try to find a joke amongst it all but rather the thing will be used by some to generate cashflow
It's not being PC...it's called having a fucking heart, jackass! |
| December 30th, 2004 11:34 PM |
|
|
| kath |
well, i don't think anybody thinks it's funny. i got a tiny bit miffed when i was corrected early on because i made an observation about monies spent. but the gigantic proportions of this is too big for anybody to ignore. sometimes humor can help you cope. i know on 9/11 i swore i would never laugh or smile again. that nothing would ever be funny again or would make me happy again. that it was the biggest hurt imaginable and it had killed my soul. and in a way it did. just as this dissaster is killing a little MORE of my soul. what can save it, you ask? well, humanity firstly. let all the uptightness and the political bullshit and religious bullshit and personal bullshit go at least just long enough to stop and think of what has happened. the city i live in has a population of 176,000-ish. so far,(just for the sake of illustration)the ENTIRE population of my town is dead, and there are miles and miles and miles of places people haven't even gotten to yet to find the dead and injured...it's overwhelming.
if somebody can find a flicker of a smile in there somewhere, good for them.
my personal belief is (and yes, i KNOW nobody asked me...) that the forces are trying to tell us that we have fucked up long enough. we're slowly destroying the planet and contaminating space ....our hatred and our greed has brought about some cataclysmic consequences. i think as a species we'd better get our collective shit together. but that's just me, and yes, i AM an old hippie.....
my eyes fill with tears every time i see the images of those waves coming and those people in the bus being washed away, and the woman letting go of one of her kids (who luckily survived). the bodies just being stacked and burned or thrown in huge mass graves. they say lots of people were just swept out to sea and they'll never be found...
it's very sad, and even more sobering and frightening....
[Edited by kath] |
| December 30th, 2004 11:37 PM |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
Well I don't think an act of God can be compared to an act of terrorrism like 9/11. |
| December 31st, 2004 12:58 AM |
|
|
| kath |
who's comparing? i said that after 9/11 i felt like i could never smile again or anything would be funny again ever. that was the saddest day of my life.
but THIS...my gawd...THIS is just too big....it's just too much to take in....the enormity will dawn on us a little at a time...
this is unimaginable devastation. the diseases that will break out, the looting and rioting for supplies and food...
this is HUGE!
i wish i could go just hold those people and tell them it's gonna be alright...my heart breaks for those people. all of them. the natives and the tourists and just all of them. it's just so damned sad.
[Edited by kath] |
| December 31st, 2004 01:15 AM |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
Well you know I might be a heartless, soulless piece of selfish shit& all the other negative adjectives that will no doubt get tossed in my general diretion, but although I genuinely feel for all people touched by this disaster, I still do see comparissons being drawn. We are after all helpless in the face of an act of God, or whatever your beliefs tend to direct you to calling this tradegy, but see we are, all of us in some capacity at however many removes, RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTS LIKE 9/11. I don't pretend to understand the infinite ways of a supposed God, but this to me is far more like; SHIT HAPPENS TO ALL OF US! What do you do? Shed a tear? Shake your head? Or shake your hips and get on with your own life/shit. No offence, but me sitting down in front of the box spewing eulogies,and hand wringing just feels like joining the pack. |
| December 31st, 2004 02:24 AM |
|
|
| Starbuck |
admittedly, this isn't even the worst disaster ever. there was an earthquake in china in 1556 that killed over 800,000 people. and that was in 1556....
of course, the second world war was responsible for the death of about 50 million people, so that kind of puts it all into perspective... |
| December 31st, 2004 02:34 AM |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
quote:
Starbuck wrote:
admittedly, this isn't even the worst disaster ever. there was an earthquake in china in 1556 that killed over 800,000 people. and that was in 1556....
of course, the second world war was responsible for the death of about 50 million people, so that kind of puts it all into perspective...
Exactly Starbuck! And do we sit around hand wringing about The Somme? NO! Do we sit around weeping about The Pacific WW2, or Dunkirk? What about the poor sucker who took a stiff dose of HENRY in our own street last night! BOLLOCKS! to all this Mother Theresa shit! It's getting on my tits. |
| December 31st, 2004 02:45 AM |
|
|
| FotiniD |
quote:
gypsymofo60 wrote:
Exactly Starbuck! And do we sit around hand wringing about The Somme? NO! Do we sit around weeping about The Pacific WW2, or Dunkirk? What about the poor sucker who took a stiff dose of HENRY in our own street last night! BOLLOCKS! to all this Mother Theresa shit! It's getting on my tits.
Well Gypsymofo, it depends on who you are and what goes on in your life. Some people actually do worry about what's going on in their streets as well. Some don't. But this does not change the fact that all people DO get shocked and some DO feel awful to see thousands of people getting killed like that. It IS a disaster - the fact that there were worse disasters before, doesn't lessen it one bit.
And SIA, don't get me wrong, the last thing I'm trying to show or to support is imposed morality - to put it simply, I can't stand that either cause it's the best place you can find hypocrisy. Gypsymofo tried to show that I think. But, hey, it's death! It's death in huge, crazy proportions! I can't find the spirit to laugh about it now. You are right that it's part of human nature to make fun of things, it's part of the whole survival mechanism we seem to carry, but not now. It's just too early, you can't joke when there are thousands of people buried down there. Not because you're not SUPPOSED to, but because you don't feel like it.
My uncle and aunt landed in Bangogk the day of the earthquake, just a few hours before that. We knew they were heading for Vietnam after that with another flight, but still we were shit worried about them. They only called yesterday afternoon. I'm not saying that in a "pity me" rant, just to say that I had the tiniest little glimpse of how that disaster affecting people can feel; so I can only imagine how a million times worse this must be for people who actually did lose their loved ones.
So I don't see any reason of comparing and contrasting... Just a little compassion for those people and all the victims, no Mother Theresa syndromes, let's just try and spare a thought, and why not, some money those who can afford it. |
| December 31st, 2004 02:47 AM |
|
|
| Starbuck |
i think we as a society today value life so much more than at any point in human history. not that this is a bad thing, mind you, its just the facts. this is why 1400 dead soldiers in iraq is a big deal to us, and this is why 3,000 dead on 9-11 makes us all feel sick to our stomach. however, it is easier for us to grieve for these 4400 americans because their deaths hit home for us. or, more properly, they are closer to home. they are our fellow countrymen. honestly speaking, how many of you are more effected by the tragedy unfolding in southeast asia than by 9-11? i'll wager not that many. i bet twenty years from now you all will remember where you were when you heard about the twin towers collapse, but twenty years from now you won't remember how you found about about the christmas tsunamis. how many of you remember the earthquake in bam? and that was only a year ago. |
| December 31st, 2004 02:57 AM |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
Font, look I understand what you're saying, but although it's to a far lesser degree I knew people who witnessed two terrible disasters, both involving football,(for which I make no Anglo excuses for), Heysel'May '85& Hillsbrough'89. Granted, both were man made disasters, but they knew people who had died, call it callous, but they still go to football matches and follow the game with the same passion. For ten years I worked in an,or in several operating theatres and saw everything from burn victims where even seasoned surgeons mumbled about where do we start? To Children I personally had to leave in the morgue, having just joked with them 25 mins earlier. We all have different perspectives, some of us deal with this shit in what may seem a soulless way. Until you walk a mile in mine, you know? |
| December 31st, 2004 02:58 AM |
|
|
| LadyJane |
Why does this have to be a competition? Can't we just mourn? That is all I want to do...mourn the dead..ALL lives lost..with respect.
Is that asking too much? Enough...I'll continue to mourn in private.
peace to all
LJ. |
| December 31st, 2004 03:06 AM |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
Anther point on this. If the peopl soooooooooooo concerned about this tradegy REALLY care soooooooooooo much, why aren't they on the first plane to Asia? Know what I mean? Admittadely, I'm far too selfish to pretend I care that much.Hand wringing over the net just doesn't cut it in my book. |
| December 31st, 2004 03:09 AM |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
I'll mourn my own. I don't have time to mourn those I don't know, or have a common feeling with. And who made into a competition? Not me! |
| December 31st, 2004 03:11 AM |
|
|
| FotiniD |
I see your point gypsymofo, but I think LJ is right. Death is death is death. It doesn't get "better" or "worse", and the same goes for disasters. Sure, you forget them! Sure, you live on, that's what happens with life - we've all felt it in a more personal level I think. For instance, you lose someone you love, and the neighbors next door are having a party at the same time. That's the way life is, sure. But I insist, that doesn't lessen the disaster. And I can't help but feel sad about it.
Starbuck, I said it again, comparing and contrasting makes no sense. You are right to say that as a society we value life more today, BUT I find it a little bit self-centered to think that the whole world revolves around America and its tragedies. Sure, 9/11 was a huge tragedy as well, and I still remember when I was when I heard about it, but mind you, what happened in these countries is just as huge - if not worse, since there are so many more victims - and I'm bound to also remember the day after Christmas I turned on the TV and saw all these dead bodies.
Let's just stop comparing though, it's just stupid. |
| December 31st, 2004 03:17 AM |
|
|
| FotiniD |
quote:
gypsymofo60 wrote:
Anther point on this. If the peopl soooooooooooo concerned about this tradegy REALLY care soooooooooooo much, why aren't they on the first plane to Asia? Know what I mean? Admittadely, I'm far too selfish to pretend I care that much.Hand wringing over the net just doesn't cut it in my book.
Cause this is just not possible. Otherwise, we would indeed turn out to be Mother Theresas, all of us. You can't rush all over the world in every possible place where people are suffering. Disasters happen every day, that's the sad truth - what makes this or any other event "special" is the vast casualties as well as the fact, in this case, that it could have been prevented, had the authorities warned people.
I think we all go on normally with our lives, have a laugh, we'll party for the New Year and so on. We did not lose OUR own people, you're right Gypsymofo. But that doesn't mean that we can just see that on the news and go "oh, bummer, let's switch to the sports channel" or whatever. At least that's how I see it, I don't know, I can't force myself to feel nothing. I hate death. It's the only huge phobia left in my life. And when I see it having a feast like that... well, it affects me.
And no imposed morality here. Jeez, never thought I'd give off the idea I was supporting this concept! |
| December 31st, 2004 03:21 AM |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
I'm not comparing anything. I'm putting out a point of view that differs with that 21st century affliction; Political correctness. Seems everybody's forgotten about coalition soldiers in Iraq, and the heartbreak in everyday life. This has become a focusing point for the world because of numbers and nothing else. As I've said, I see your point, but if we sat around counting disasters, and toting up numbers we'd be lumbered. |
| December 31st, 2004 03:24 AM |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
Prevented how? Some tosser was on the radio this morning talking about how town planning could've prevented this. What? In third world countries? They don't have those luxuries. And as Mr. Mojo himself once said, "You cannot petition The Lord with prayer". |
| December 31st, 2004 11:12 AM |
|
|
| gustavobala |
now are 140,000
indonesian not count more!  |
| December 31st, 2004 11:28 AM |
|
|
| Angiegirl |
quote:
gypsymofo60 wrote:
Well I don't think an act of God can be compared to an act of terrorrism like 9/11.
God has nothing to do with anything, it's an act of nature, stick to the facts here. |
| December 31st, 2004 11:36 AM |
|
|
| F505 |
quote:
Angiegirl wrote:
God has nothing to do with anything, it's an act of nature, stick to the facts here.
You're quite right Angiegirl. You're one of the smartest poster hanging around. A great 2005 for you!  Keep on posting! |
| December 31st, 2004 12:10 PM |
|
|
| Moonisup |
I find these are discussions quite sad to be honest, when 125.000 + are killed, some thinking of the victims would be apropriate, I think
[Edited by Moonisup] |
| December 31st, 2004 12:34 PM |
|
|
| telecaster |
The bright side is the entire civilized world, including corporations, charities, and individuals have responded
in any overwhelming manner |
| December 31st, 2004 01:21 PM |
|
|
| Angiegirl |
quote:
F505 wrote:
You're quite right Angiegirl. You're one of the smartest poster hanging around. A great 2005 for you! Keep on posting!
Thanx  . Have a nice night yourself  !!! |
CHAT
ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [
RESTROOMS]