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| ~AzQb |
...can someone condense this?
The Pete ByNumbers downloading child porn for "research"? Him of the copped windmill strum and prepunk smash the means to smithereens?
I dared not presume after "Rough Boys"...but a niggle was nagging in the back of my mind...and then Uncle Ernie...
WTF????
~ |
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| Martha |
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking ~AzQb...but think you are asking about the peices of the puzzle and how do they ( or do they) make sense in Petey's favor???
If that is the jist, then my thoughts are along these lines, so far anyway.
From what I understand he told the police he was conducting research for his book. And he is writing a book. He also believes he was molested as a child. He wrote about molestation in his songs (IMO) because it is within his realm of life experiences. However, he may have not been "aware" of the fact he was writing about himself until recently. He may never fully recover his memories of the abuse. He may never recover ANY of the memories.
Incest surviors do not always have memories of the abuse. I have had one body memory surface of abuse that happened to me. I believe I was molested when I was a baby, which is what my body memory told me. I also was molested by a Dentist when I was in my teen years. I remember that happening, in spite of the fact that he gave me drugs each time he did it. The relaxing drugs were to calm my nerves (according to him) so he could do the work on me...filling my teeth. The molesting he did was also very subtle (nothing remotely full-blown) and because of the nature of it, I wasn't sure he intended to do it.....and as a young and insecure teen I didn't tell anyone.
It took me more than 15 years to realize what really happpened and to begin to deal with the ramifications in therapy and recovery. By the way that sonofabitch died of stomach cancer so his behavior ATE him up..the karmic train, folks.
What I know about incest/molestation is this. You only have to have one encouter of incest/molestation to be "damaged emotionally" for the rest of your life. Let that sink in a moment. In other words, it only has to happen ONE time to fuck you up, which in turn sets in motion symptoms that are typical of the abuse, and you don't need any memory of the abuse to have the symptoms.
On a positive note. Recovery IS possible, but one must be open to that, find good support and therapy (there are great books, and 12-step recovery (Survivors of Incest Anonymous: SIA) and counseling/therapy. Then one must do the necessary work to achieve healing. None of this is easy or even necessarily supported in this society. We are still (IMO) very much into denial and quick to place blame on the victims of the abuse which is one of the reasons I said nothing about mine. ANd a reason I do not believe Petey did anything, as of yet. Also, the other thing is, often times telling someone about the abuse does not go well because the response they may get is a "minimizing" of the event This happens a lot primarily because the person being told DOES NOT want to KNOW it has happened BECAUSE they cannot deal with it emotionally ( and many times it may bring up abuse that happened to them that they are in denial about). I'm not speaking about professionals here I mean telling a loved one/family member or friend.
The symptoms of sexual abuse vary and are not necessarily easy to see or diagnose. Mine was NEVER diagnosed and I have been in counseling settings on numerous occasions for symptoms that I suffered with.
Symptoms (some of):
ANGER and rage are certainly at the top of the list....a person can be very stuck in their anger, yet not know the underlying cause is sexual abuse. Incest survivors are candidates for drug and alcohol abuse, eating disorders, other addictions, self mutilation, sexually acting out i.e. promiscuity or sexual anorexia, anxiety and depression plagues them, they cannot trust people, and in some severe cases they suffer from PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder).
These are just SOME of the symptoms of abuse stated in a GENERAL context.
So did Petey do it or not? I do not know. I don't think so, is the way I'm leaning at this time. That he wrote about molestation in several of his songs is not an indication of or admittance to guilt...(IMO) rather, the uncovering of his own sexual history. The anger and "edge" that Petey has always worn on his sleeve indicates to me that he may well have been abused sexually. It is a symptom.
Carlos Santana came out about his abuse (he was molested in his early teens or younger ..I don't remember exactly by an older male) to Charlie Rose in his 60 minutes interview a few years ago. Remember that? Charlie was floored..he wasn't prepared at all to get that response to his question..which was obvious..it really threw him for a minute or so.
Carlos talked about the abuse experience and how it affected him in his adult life. He told Charlie that before he got into therapy to deal with this event..he had two modes of being in the world..."angry and angrier"...(and he was self-medicating with da herb at this time...which wasn't taking that edge off any longer, evidently).
Carlos went into counseling for the abuse and is now leading a happier life, a life based on spiritual principles and behaviors..which he speaks openly about. I admire and dig him for it. It takes a LOT of courage to do that work.
So, what I'm trying to illuminate is that it is complex and one thing may not necessarily lead to another in trying to "figure" out what is what with Petey. Jumping to conclusions without knowing anything about sexual abuse and the ramifications of it is not what I would suggest. I plan to read more of the interviews and wait to see.
All I can go by is that, and my own experieince and what I already know about sexual abuse. It is of epidemic proportions, that I do know. The more one educates themselves on the subject the better chances we have for eradicating this hideous illness. That could be one positive outcome to gain from this situation. |
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| ~AzQb |
thank you, Martha.
I learned quite a bit from your post and i'm grateful you took the time to write it.
Isn't it true also that molesters themselves have been molested as children? I'm not talking the sick fuck who dressed as a clown and slaughtered almost have a hundred boys and stored them in his basement, or even the dahmers among us on assembly lines, but the supposedly "normal boring" uncle or family friend?
It's true about the anger as well-- every straight guy i know who was molested at Boy Scout camp or wherever has such pent up rage about the molesting and refuses to talk to anyone about it at length. It's basically, "i hope he's getting raped repeatedly in jail or is frying for eternity in hell, or both."
Think it's easier for chicks somehow. With guys it's such a power trip, and any kid facing a full grown man in that kind of situation-- hell, if i was molested as a boy, i couldn't WAIT to be big enuf to annhilate that sick fuck's world UP. So i understand the anger and bitterness with the guys, believe me.
I bet ole Pete WAS doin research.
~ |
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| Factory Girl |
Annie, are you cynical about Pete's "research"? |
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| LadyJane |
Martha:
I commend you for your honesty and insightful post. I'm very glad to hear that you made your way through the awful quaqmire!!
Child abuse is no laughing matter and I think the joking posts about Pete have been a tad out of line. I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt, although the court of public opinion is destroying him.
LadyJ. |
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| Nellcote |
Credibility to Pete's cause would certainly increase if the publishing house of his book deal, along with publishing date information etc. would be released.
Lacking this, suspicion grows.... |
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| ~AzQb |
[quote]Factory Girl wrote:
Annie, are you cynical about Pete's "research"?
[/quote
FG
Actually, until we hear something besides sensationalistic "journalism" it IS possible he was figuring himself out-- per martha's assertion-- without a shrinkydink and the Enquirer.
I dunno-- but i'm not about to call the cat a pedophile til the truth wins.
~ |
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| Dandelion* |
Annie - how are you?
Are you going to MSG?
Did you see Ginda's going to turn me into the Smegma Police!
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| Martha |
You're welcome ~AzQb. It is true that some people molested as children can "act out" as adults by repeating the abuse that was inflicted upon them. That is one effect/symptom of the disease....and a way it continues to be perpetuated. At the very least sexual abuse corrupts a persons ability to be "normal" and "healthy" regarding their sexuality. Add to that living in a culture that sexualizes EVERYTHING ( to grotesque extremes)and then try to be "normal". It ain't easy.
I don't think it is any easier for women to deal with this stuff, though. In fact, it may be more difficult in some ways...but it's probably like apples and oranges..it FUCKS anyone up who is abused, period.
The stereotyped roles we are forced into as women and men in this culture only serves to perpetuate the illness...(IMHO).
One way to look at it is this,..women are taught NOT to be (or to express) angry in this culture ( and we are constantly thwarted from any attempts we may make to move outside of this idealogical stance, by being remanded (and put-down) for expressing anger, unless our anger DOES not threaten the status quo). And men are taught ONLY to express anger (which they are applauded, supported, expected and respected for doing).
We are taught the same thing about being sexual as well. Men are expected, respected, supported and PRESSURED to be sexual and women are put down, taunted, rejected, and abused for being sexual...unless it serves to support the status quo. Neither extreme is natural. IMO
This unnatural way of being in the world serves to cut us all off from our (multitud)e feelings, and perpetuates living in a fantasy world. Those feelings, yes ALL of them ( there are a ton of feelings by the way), serve as our own personal gateway to important spiritual information about ourselves. This connects us to a deeper more spiritually focused way of being in the world and allows us to become mature, happy, healthy spiritually-based adult members of society.
I think it is profoundly important to understand that the very inability we learn to have regardiing being able to access and feel our feelings, (god-given/natural to the human process) particularly feelings that evoke vulnerability, is the very thing that stops us from our internal healing process. In that regard, we are practicing living in a "closed system" ideologically speaking and unless we can open to that and look for and find the tools, cannot move outside of. Like I said it is a "closed system".
So, being shut off from our feelings means, for instance, that men cannot cry (they are stripped immediately of their masculinity in the eyes of our culture if they do by the way) from the pain of the abuse. And believe me WE MUST CRY OVER THAT PAIN! Instead we have a very limited scope for dealing with this probelm. One recourse.... go KILL the fucker.
Killing the fuckers won't serve to heal me or anyone else from the affects of the abuse, if it would I'd be loading the gun myself. I have felt the want to kill the abuser, so I do understand that type of anger. But the healing work I've done so far has taught me the futility of that kind of thinking. It also shows me how my reacting to the abuser would only serve to hurt me and my loved ones further. It is a choice, but not an answer. It only perpetuates the very abuse I want to stop.
Taking steps ( to make it all better by trying to gain power over a person place or thing (that I am ultimately powerless over).. can NEVER redeem or heal or allow me or anyone to truly move forward in recovery. All the work will still be there for me to face and do, the soul and heart will still be in pain. I can only heal through admitting what happened as it surfaces in me..and that happens as life moves forward. Then, with that information, I have been able to learn how to be intouch with my feelings.
From that place I can then work on making changes in my behavior that help me to move in a healthier direction in my life. I have also learned how to access a source of spiritual power that resides both inside and outside of myself through this healing process. That power source now connects me to...a lot of other choices that I had no idea existed. I am getting myself and my life back today. Recovery is VERY powerful medicine.
Power issues are at the core of sexual abuse in the first place. Abuse is ALWAYS about the co-opting of another person's power in order to attempt (for the abuser) to regain power for themselves..it is very much about the perpetual struggle to have power over another person.
I think it is unnatural as hell to try and live by denying feelings (God-given feelings by the way)....it's a real twisted way of attempting to remain human for either gender, ehhh? I don't believe in all this gender specific research either, for the most part...as it seems to be based on believing in these stereotypes in the first place.
I believe we are all human..and individual at the same time. We share many human qualities..whether we are male or female..particularly emotions and the need for spirituality. That is MUCH larger and important than how the hell we have (or IF we have) intercourse, reproduce, or how the amount of hormones coursing through our bodies on any given day may effect our moods. That so much attention and focus continues in this quest only points out, to me, that we are, ideologically speaking, striving to continue along the lines of the perpetuating these gender specifc roles...the myth of gender stereotyping ..the "men will be men" bullshit..etc. These stereotypes have a cultural socio-economic and political stake/investment and to perpetuate them means simply that we all must "believe" it is true. Yet, in doing so also means we as a society will remain in denial. Abuse will continue.
Back to my original point though, regarding anger and how women cannot have any and men are to have only anger(they are allowed to express their sexual feelings too (no shit)). Either extreme does not lend itself to recovery. Women are treated as victims and sexualized objects to bought paid for and owned (and that is continuing to progressing very rapidly in this culture).
So, coming from that place we as women "know" in a collective sense, how to continue accepting the abuse. That is a far cry from admitting the abuse was abuse and then taking the next steps, which is doing the necessary things to get appropriate help and begin to heal.
Yet, that "knowing" is in and of itself not an answer to the abuse, nor is it a way out..into accessing what is needed to heal from it. We have to do more than stay in the "roles" we are all living within ideologically, in order to actually begin to heal from the affects of the abuse. We must have a shift in consciousness and begin to recognize reality and face the truth. This is no small order.
One choice is to stay in denial and another is facing the truth. You cannot do both, simultaneously. It takes an enormous amount of courage to choose the latter.
Stereotyped conditioning ( in our patriarchal based society) limits both genders, in profound ways and serves, in particular, to keep women in the role of victim (one -down) and men as abusers (one-up). Those roles can also be reversed.
This is a very important subject. Thanks for listening.
By the way, anyone else reading this who may want to engage in an argument..I ain't goin' there. Just wanted to state that up front. I know I've left things out and cannot possible cover all aspects of what I'm trying to speak about. |
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| ~AzQb |
martha
...there was a thread on ShyNotta {LOL} a few days ago where gypsy and i basically said the same thing-- that sexually abused female children often grow up to be strippers and porn "stars"-- {and i hasten to add,not so much cause they dig it, but because it's an acceptable means of "getting back at" men.}
Think about it, right. You've been abused as a girl by a man you thought{?} you could trust...what better way to have the last laugh than to shake your ass in some guy's face, tease him into a hard-on, and then laugh your ass off when you shake him down for all his money?
Who has the last laugh?
I dunno-- but the abused-as-chldren women i know in the porn industry take perverse glee in this-- and i've always found it tragic,sad, and pitiful.
~ |
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| Dandelion* |
Martha, interesting posts. Amazing how a woman expressing anger is usually demeaned as a bitch, no? I know guys who PREFER manipulative female behaviour instead of honesty because for some fucked up reason it's easier for them to deal with.
Did you read my alter ego's alter ego William Randolph Hearst's link to the Village Voice article about Pee-wee Herman? What do you think? |
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| MarthaMyDear |
MARTHA!!!   Thank you VERY MUCH for your posts and I enjoy them all IMMENSELY and I know ALL of which you speak of because I have been on a similar "recovery journey" as you have (actually, quite a few), it looks like, since around 1986 (with hills and valleys inbetween...) but therapeutically since my childhood, basically... I have studied what you post about since about 1986 and know it all very well, etc., and it's always nice (but UNFORTUNATE) to see a fellow journeyWOMAN, so thank you very much for this and stay on the path and stay yourself and ROCK ON, alrighty?!?!?! TAKE CARE, fellow survivor, and I'll talk to you soon!!!! Anyways, ALOT MORE SOON!!!!
*** Martha *** |
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| MarthaMyDear |
And, YOU take care of yourself, ALSO, ~AzQb!!! I am keeping an eye on you, ok.?!?!?! lol................... Take care, lady, and do rock on with your bad self!!!  PEACE!!!
*** Martha *** |
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| Martha |
quote:
Dandelion* wrote:
Martha, interesting posts. Amazing how a woman expressing anger is usually demeaned as a bitch, no? I know guys who PREFER manipulative female behaviour instead of honesty because for some fucked up reason it's easier for them to deal with.
Did you read my alter ego's alter ego William Randolph Hearst's link to the Village Voice article about Pee-wee Herman? What do you think?
Hey Dandelion*...yeah that "b" word thing is,, in my opinon the racist equivilant of the "n" word so I refuse to use it unless I use it as a verb. Certainly based on hate..and I am making a conscience effort to not participate in hate-activities.
I missed the article on Pee Wee Herman and would love to read it..where is it? I'll go search for it now.
Thanks everyone (Martha My Dear, , LadyJane,~AzQb) for the nice comments and the supportive words of encouragment. It means a lot to me and it is nice to feel a bit more connected to other women on the board. I realized as I was writing today that I was putting a lot of myself out there. It is a subject that goes very deep with me. I am an advocate for those in recovery and who are seeking recovery. My heart really goes out to abused children, in particular.
~AzQb said:
"Think about it, right. You've been abused as a girl by a man you thought{?} you could trust...what better way to have the last laugh than to shake your ass in some guy's face, tease him into a hard-on, and then laugh your ass off when you shake him down for all his money?
Who has the last laugh?"
No one wins in this situation..money certainly does not heal the pain of abuse..no matter how much one gets paid for whatever they choose to do.
~AzQb said:
"I dunno-- but the abused-as-chldren women i know in the porn industry take perverse glee in this-- and i've always found it tragic,sad, and pitiful."
Not only do I too, find it sad...I see it as the attempt to have "power" on their part that is doomed to failure and they are most likely only becoming less and less whole (spiritually speaking). I kow what it feels like to lose myself spiritually..it is hell.
I just got a call..my Grandma died just two hours ago. She was 97. I was her only Granddaughter......I may not be on the board much for a few days.
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| Miss U. |
quote:
~AzQb wrote:
[quote]Factory Girl wrote:
Annie, are you cynical about Pete's "research"?
[/quote
FG
Actually, until we hear something besides sensationalistic "journalism" it IS possible he was figuring himself out-- per martha's assertion-- without a shrinkydink and the Enquirer.
I dunno-- but i'm not about to call the cat a pedophile til the truth wins.
~
Azqb, without passing judgement on him prematurely, I am also a bit cynical about his "research" reason. As a certified professional trained to deal with abused youth, abuse is a cycle, and therapy is needed to overcome the cycle of abuse. That doesn't mean everyone who was abused as a child grows up to be abusive. I hope Pete has sought out therapy even if he suspects he may have been a victim as a child, regardless of whether he remembers only fragments. No one deserves to go through that. But as sad as it is that he may have been victimized as a child, he shouldn't have viewed any images for any reason, nor paid anything to view any images. You don't need to view images to learn about the issue of abuse or research it. There are other ways to learn, better ways to resolve the trauma. Like going to therapy. Searching articles/studies on the web is one thing.
To give him the benefit of the doubt, he may have been acting as amateur detective to report the motherfuckers who hosted the site...but he should have gone to police first with any suspicions about any sites.
It was also stated in the news there was another British rock star also suspected....
I think maybe they should have waited until/if he is actually charged before the media onslaught. It's like he's being held as an example to all others, a scapegoat maybe.
Looking at his lyrics...
it's abit ambivalent his songs on the issue seem to take on the viewpoint of the molester:
So let's have a smile for an old engine driver
Please take a sweet
Come take a walk with me
We'll sort it out
Back at my place, maybe
It'll come right
You ain't no fool, I ain't either
So why not be nice to an old engine driver?
Better be nice to an old engine driver
Better be nice to an old engine driver
V. Soon Be Home
We'll soon be home
We'll soon be home
We'll soon
We'll soon, soon, soon be home
We'll soon be home
We'll soon be home
We'll soon
We'll soon, soon, soon be home
Come on, old horse
Soon be home
Soon be home
Soon
We'll soon, soon, soon be home
We'll soon
We'll soon, soon, soon be home
We'll soon be home
Soon be home ...
VI. You Are Forgiven
Dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang
Cello, cello, cello, cello, cello, cello
Cello, cello, cello, cello, cello, cello
Cello, cello, cello, cello, cello, cello
Cello, cello, cello, cello, cello, cello
I can't believe it
Do my eyes deceive me?
Am I back in your arms?
Away from all harm?
It's like a dream to be with you again
Can't believe that I'm with you again
I missed you and I must admit
I kissed a few and once did sit
On Ivor the Engine Driver's lap
And later with him, had a nap
You are forgiven, you are forgiven, you are forgiven ... (ad lib)
You are forgiven
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| ~AzQb |
oh God Martha.
I'm so sorry.
Please return as soon as you can.
We'll be thinkin of you.
~ |
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| Dandelion* |
Martha,
I am very sorry to hear about your grandmother. 97 - she was very lucky. We should all hope to be here that long. I hope she had a good life right up until the end. Hang in there.
--
The article was posted under the Pete's been released thread I think. Or you can just go to www.villagevoice.com and a link is at the top of the page. VERY interesting points in light of your commments and the whole situation we're discussing. I'll post more and whenever you have time just check back. Sometimes this place can be a nice distraction.
Best wishes,
Dandy |
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| parmeda |
Martha...
My prayers are with you and your family. Take care of your business, we'll be here when you come back...most importantly, take care of yourself.
Pam @--)--- |
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| Martha |
Thank you so much for the words of sympathy. I am in shock even though I knew it was coming..and yesterday she was doing much better. That is how these things go I guess.
I feel like the wind has been taken out of my sails right now. It's only been 6 months and 5 days since my husband lost his Father to cancer (and alcoholism). It hasn't been the easiest time of our lives.
Again, thank you so much. Your words of comfort mean more to me than I can say. |
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| MarthaMyDear |
MARTHA!!! PLEASE take it easy, ok., and my thoughts and prayers are with you, ok., and just take some time out for yourself and the board is always here and I'll be reading your great posts at any time you post, alrighty?!?!?! I'm really sorry to hear this, but you will be ok. and just take it easy...
Anyways, take care and serenity and peace to you ALWAYS!!! AND, ALWAYS ROCK ON!!! TAKE CARE!!!
*** Martha *** |
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| Martha |
Thank you so much Martha..you are a Dear!
It's good to know the board (and especially all of you) will be here when I return. |
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| Maxlugar |
I'm emailing this thread to The Lifetime Channel (Television for Women)
I should get about six made for TV movies out of this one!
YES!
Maxy!! |
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| LadyJane |
Deepest condolences to you, Martha!
LadyJ. |
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| ~AzQb |
HeyDiaperGeniEMaxYWhomIAdoRe!
...just gettin backatcha guys for all the fookin' Dolphins/Raiders/or who the fuck cares threads.
Yes, the women here are quite extraordinary, ain't they?
Next time at YOTI, I'LL do a Nolte of note, and then you, myMaXyB, can pontificate "nsc" to yer sweet hearts' content
Kiss Maxette7x for me and don't forget to lay her on her tum or side...you know; you read the books!
~preNolted&LmAo |
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| BILL PERKS |
EVEN THE GREATEST HAVE BEEN MOLESTED.BABA BOOEY GAVE A HAND JOB FOR SOME CHOCOLATE. |
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| Maxlugar |
I have seen more poop than I ever thought I would.
I really need to get to MSG Saturday night.
Not sure if my ticket guy will come through so I'm not sure I'll be there, AZBQ'y.
I'll probably know tomorrow either way.
Developing......
Maxy! |
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| MarthaMyDear |
Is that true, BILL?!?!?! I love Fla Fla Flew High.............  BOFFSS!!! BOFFSS!!! Well, at least he's making some cash and doing great on a hilarious show and I hope the abuser sticks that up his arse... Ok.... Working on the anger... ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok.!!! I'm getting tired... ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P Anyways, PEACE and ROCK ON!!!
*** Martha *** |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Martha....
My heartfelt condolences on your loss.
Don't be sad, she has gone to a far better place. |
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| Martha |
Thank you SS....I really appreciate your words.
I keep flashing back on the times when I was so young and hanging around her, day in and day out. She made the greatest cookies. She never yelled at me once in all the years of her life....and I'm sure I deserved it at least once! I will miss her terribly.
Also, want to let you know I sent your package out today SS.
Peace everyone. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Thanks for the package Martha.
God must have been smoking weed again, and got the munchies for some cookies.
Hey, it's God, he only eats the best cookies.
I'm sure your Gram is very happy baking her best recipes for "The Big Guy".
Be strong.
Hugs... |
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