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Topic: Rediscovering Black And Blue Return to archive
12-22-03 06:21 AM
morocco I love the way four guitarists, Mandel, Wood, Richard, and Perkins intertwine their solos and rhythms throughout all the songs on this album.

Memory Motel is one of the most beautiful ballads the Stones have ever written.

Hot Stuff and Hey Negrita are some of the hardest rocking rhythmic grooves the Stones have ever laid down.

The Perkins solo at the end of Fool To Cry is superb.

Hand Of Fate is one of the Stones rock classics. What a great title!
12-22-03 09:15 AM
Zack So, does this mark the start of a romp through the catalog that's going to end up at some point in the future with "Rediscovering Dirty Work"?

For one thing, I find the need to rediscover Sticky Fingers slightly alarming. No offense to the esteemed young poster, but the album's clearly a masterpiece and among highest of the Stones' many high points.

Second, sorry but Black and Blue is not exactly the the lost tomb of Tutankamen waiting for Howard Carter.

As Stu might say, Hot Stuff is insipid funk near completely devoid of lyrics and a groove of its own. If I want this sort of thing I will put on James Brown. Melody is a most pitiful stab at reggae, and I swear I think Fool to Cry is their most embarrassing single ever. I'm with Keith, asleep at the piano. The repetition is astonishing.

Maroc, your comments about the intertwining guitars baffle, all the guests were doing their best Mick Taylor impressions by themselves on separate tracks. HOF and MM are great tunes, Crazy Mama listenable though quite derivatave (kind of Jiving Sister Fannie recycled), and what else is there, Hey Negrita, which is almost completely devoid of melody. I can be fond of Black and Blue sometimes, in a certain mood, same as, say, Emotional Rescue. But as a whole, it represented a low point in the band's fortunes, on the opposite end of the spectrum as the mighty SF, down there with Hold Back & co.

I know there are B&B lovers out there (me I'm more partial to BTB more than most) and you should all defend its artistic integrity. It's got a real mood to it that gives it identity. But in the end, weak. I know. Stu told me.
12-22-03 10:21 AM
nankerphelge I've always liked Black & Blue -- I agree that it doesn't break new ground for the most part -- but I do like it's funk despite the proximity of my James Brown 40th Anniversary CD!

But I agree you gotta be in the right mood for it!
12-22-03 11:36 AM
HardKnoxDurtySox I love Black and Blue. Perhaps the best thing about it is the production which might be the best production in the entire Stones catalog. Obviously this kind of "clean" sound would not have worked on something like Exile which is supposed to be muddled and dirty, but it works on this record. I've always considered Black and Blue to be a good beach album with stuff like Hey Negrita and Cherry Oh Baby...which by the way is a great and hilarious reggae song.
12-22-03 11:38 AM
VoodooChileInWOnderl Blaxk and Blue is so stone... I love it
12-22-03 11:39 AM
jb I never had to rediscover "Black and Blue" as I am a loyal fan.
12-22-03 11:42 AM
Mr T going through a B&B phase myself right now
12-22-03 11:50 AM
SHINE A LIGHT i find "black and blue" to be very good, but certainly not up there with my top 3.

regarding our "new young poster", i'm a bit cynical. my take is that either it's another poster,coming in as a "new person"......i'm told that folks have several different handles on the same sites!!! or, if this poster is for real, a new person........then i say he/she is far too young to have the experience with this music to make such judgements. as for the discussion of the intermingling of guitars and such,it sounds like something i've recently read.....maybe in martin elliott???

the only time i've enjoyed "cherry-oh baby" was at stonesplace. bernard et al were fabulous on it.
12-22-03 12:14 PM
KeithRichards210 Black & Blue is a great album, especially when you consider how the Stones were in a major transition. They didn't even have a 2nd guitarist of their own at the time. Wayne Perkins does justice to Taylor quite nicely, especially on Hand Of Fate. Harvey mandel does some tasty stuff on Hot Stuff, Keith nearly beats 'em all on Crazy Mama. The album may not "flow" like some of the others, but it's great nonetheless.
12-22-03 12:22 PM
SHINE A LIGHT yes, i had forgotten about that....the stones were in the"audition" phase. thanks for reminding us all, well at least me.
12-22-03 03:13 PM
glencar Only 8 songs & none of them knock me out. One of their weakest efforts but that's not a knock because this group on its worst day does better than almost anyone else out there.
12-22-03 03:51 PM
Prodigal Son When I think about it, B&B is good but maybe I overrated it myself. I can get more enjoyment from IORR. It's slightly ahead of GHS, but is too short and to have average material like "Cherry Oh Baby" and "Melody," makes it only okay for Stones standards. "Hot Stuff" is pretty good but can only do so much as does "Hey Negrita" (pretty repetitive, no wonder "Slave" came from the same sessions). "Fool to Cry" is a nice ballad but sometimes I just can't listen if I'm not in the mood for it. "Memory Motel" is always great to me as is "Hand of Fate" and "Crazy Mama." Could've used more tracks. Gets a B+ in my book (4/5 stars).
[Edited by Prodigal Son]
12-22-03 04:20 PM
glencar My 3 faves are also MM, HOF & Crazy Mama. Hot Stuff is close in there. But FTC is another ballad & the other songs are great when I hear them but they're not standouts.
12-22-03 04:21 PM
jb B&B is better than the best Beatles album...HOF, MM, HS, CM, are better than any sappy pop tunes Lennon/Macca ever penned.
[Edited by jb]
12-22-03 04:22 PM
glencar Amen, brudda!
12-22-03 05:51 PM
Child of the Moon Black and Blue, eh?

Love that album. It's that simple.

I came to the realization a while ago that Hot Stuff may be the sleaziest song ever written.
12-22-03 05:55 PM
nankerphelge It is sleazy.

The whole release is kinda loose and funky and perfectly nasty Stones!

Definitely should have had more than 8 tracks, but Black & Blue and Undercover both have that funky nasty Stonesy nasty funk!

12-22-03 07:57 PM
exile Black and Blue is a GREAT ALBUM
definitely one of there best even though only nine songs

I rate this album very highly

Hey Negrita would be one of my all time fav stones songs
very time you listen to B&B it gets better and better with every listen.

Sticky Fingers and Black and Blue were the first 2 albums I ever bought
12-22-03 09:17 PM
Some Guy I turned a friend of mine onto this CD, and even though he has a distaste for the Stones, he bought this CD later!
WORD
12-22-03 11:26 PM
Zack I will spin this album today in honor of all this sycophancy. Good points about clean production and sleazy content. Lester Bangs called it the first Stones album not to mean anything. I think that's true.
12-22-03 11:35 PM
BILL PERKS MELODY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REGGAE...ONE SHOULD ONLY POST ON TOPICS THEY HAVE SOME BASIS FOR SHARING
12-23-03 04:16 AM
L&A B&B was IMO the last outstanding album from the 70's. Also the first with Ron Wood, and without Mick Taylor . At that time, Keith was playing most guitar parts. I also like the work of Billy Preston on B&B...
12-23-03 05:16 AM
Zack Hey Bill Perks, isn't it fairly obvious that when I referred to bad reggae on Black and Blue, I meant Cherry Oh Baby and mistakenly wrote Melody?

Do you really think, based on the rest of my post, I have no basis for sharing? Or are you just an asshole who likes taking cheap shots?
12-23-03 06:12 AM
glencar "Or are you just an asshole who likes taking cheap shots?"

The rest of us knew what you meant.